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3. That is a reasonable strategy. However, I've seen teams win it through other means. Another strategy is spending cash immediately on older players and hope they can carry the team to a championship. I've seen teams do both strategies and be successful.

I think they want to prevent exactly that. They want to make it unlikely that someone may have enough money from saving to buy the finished product directly without training.

4. Try to post in the suggestion forums on how to improve training. Maybe you can help.

There have been endless discussions about how to make training more appealing, including from the person who opened this thread and from several GMs. I liked very much the ideas of those who wanted to focus the efforts and changes on lower potential trainees. The threads are still there. Maybe we can all go and revisit those threads. :)

Not really. Unless you haven't followed the conversation, 54 TSP HoF 18yo are not going to free agency. Therefore I ask you and Perpete, exactly what we're talking about? Yes 10 is more than 0, but unfortunately 10 is fewer than 200 or 500. I can show you precisely how many hundreds of players who were trainable actually retired (and they would not have retired last season), can you show me how many 18-20yo have been saved from retirement so far?

I'm getting tired of people coming out with this nonsense. I was challenged to check and I did. I can do the math, can you guys? Do we want to finally put all the chips on the table and argue with numbers instead of claiming silly vague statements? The only person who has seen a 18yo free agent is hrudey.

Start counting and contact me when you reach 200.

Here is the full paragraph, two lines:
"There has been no such reduction. The FA changes does allow more 18/20 y old to become FA than before which was 0. I don't know how much, maybe not enough, but more."

So if the requirement for FA is 55+TSP for HoF exactly how many do you think are going to make it? Now compare this number to those who made it before and don't make it anymore now. I think we should do a nice little count, so we can determine who is right and who isn't. Do you agree?

The change has barely happened and already we are talking about reversing it.

We are talking about having a coherent and logical idea for the future of this game, which possibly does not involve just destroying and limiting features, but improving them instead.

Besides the general consensus seemed to be that prices were high enough, maybe too high given. Maybe we should make a poll and see if that's still the case.

It's great to reward people who trains the players, I would do it too but I've always to find someone in the market cause no one decent player has coming from the draft. Again, not talking about the skills but above all about the potential. Having max potential lvl 5 or lower is something that destroy every hopes to create a nice player. Gimme the possibile to waste my money at least in a 18 yo with MVP or similar potential then I can agree with you. At the moment I can only see the market raising (or decreasing) but I've to buy in any case players.
One really bad thing that there is when you change the economy here in BB is that your money changes a lot in the value, 3 seasons ago 4 millions were an huge amount, today not; the team strategy here is always on a long term basis, whenever you change the economy you're also change my way to play, I think you know it, just a reminder :p

How many players retired who would not have last season? Just curious, do you know the skills and potential of the 18 year old free agent?

I don't know the skills of course, but salary and DMI (after reset) I do know. In any case, last season's criteria was just based on salary, so skills had nothing to do with it. Therefore yes I can pinpoint exactly how many players fitting the requirements last season and likely still trainable (based on salary range/potential) have retired.

I ran a check of the players and teams which were active at the beginning of the season (after the draft) with NT scout.
I ran a check a month later and looked for the guys matching the S30 criteria who are now retired and had high enough potential to be still trainable.
It's funny that it's the same people that continue to argue that something>0 who asked me to provide evidence with numbers back then and prompted me to do this analysis, but have done 0 analysis on this.

Of course, I could also look into all those who have retired despite reasonably high salary (but not as high as S30 requirements) and were not capped based their "position" and age. They will be a lot more of those...

Hmm, what if those players who retired did so because no one bid on them? Just curious, what percentage of players not retiring vs players who would have been free agents in S30 did you get? I guess the something > 0 is just a misunderstanding. Perpete said that there are more 18-20 year old free agents while you mean there are less 18-28 free agents. Sorry, I do not have time to make an analysis so I just state my opinion, which of course can be wrong, but seems logical to me at the time posted. :)

First of all, I've seen one 18-year old player going to the FA. For your information, this player was so good that he was sold $6,000,000! The 19-year old player I saw was sold for over $1,000,000. Both of them were awesome players when they went into the FA.

I agreed with you when you criticized the announcement which was made and wrote that what happens is not what was announced. Even though I don't understand how the FA mechanism works, I share your feeling. That being said, I do not agree with the rest of your statement. You basically complain that there are not enough young players saved from retiring. You are right but this is how it works, the lack of talented young players make them very expensive, that's a fact. What else is there to say about it? You don't like it, we can all understand you and as a U21 NT manager, I share your feeling but that's how it is.

For your information, I have some numbers to provide: over the past 3/4 weeks, I saw 34 players between 21 and 23 who went to the FA, 23 of these 34 players would have retired if the new FA mechanism was not there.

You basically complain that there are not enough young players saved from retiring.

I complain that there are people who argue that there are more trainable players going into FA when that is not the reality.

this player was so good that he was sold $6,000,000! The 19-year old player I saw was sold for over $1,000,000. Both of them were awesome players when they went into the FA.

Well if that 54 TSP HoF did not go to the market I would assume that the requirements are even stricter. I am not surprised that a 60+ starting skill, maybe even around 65, 6'6''-6'8'', HoF+ player could go for $6m. However the question then becomes whether you think it's reasonable that someone claims that we are helping training by saving 18-19yo when the criteria are so strict that 54 TSP players get axed? Unless the criteria have already changed, that is...

And here lies another problem: if a 54 HoF does not go to FA it's safe to assume (because it has been said that the criteria are linked to potential) that a 54 TSP (but maybe even a 60 TSP) Perennial All-Star will not go to FA. Therefore the change only saves elite players, but does not save great players. A 60 TSP PAS can be a monster for a U21 team and there is a lot of people whose like to train for their U21. He could be a fantastic starter on a D3 team and a very good one even in D2.

For your information, I have some numbers to provide: over the past 3/4 weeks, I saw 34 players between 21 and 23 who went to the FA, 23 of these 34 players would have retired if the new FA mechanism was not there.

There are 60 guys aged 25 or less and with potential 8 or more who retired in the last couple of weeks or are playing for bots. All of them would have made it in S30. If I can lower the salary criteria for younger players I guess they would be several hundreds. Note that very few of these are capped and note that a 7'5'' SG with 15k salary at 21yo might be actually be a fantastic player. There players even with slightly lower salary are very good players and are definitely still trainable...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 06/18/2015 14:02:28