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The point about this discussion, I don't like is, that a lot of people seem to assume, that participants of B3 earn huge rewards, that then disrupt the normal league. What is missing for me is the quantification of this.

The advantages of playing in B3 are
- earning money from attendance
- additional training minutes
- Enthusiasm

The disadvantages are:
- Game shape or bigger squad to avoid issues
- risk of injuries

Attendance: if you get lucky and have a big arena, this can mean quite some additional income (I think BC Töröö made 600'000 in the first 3 rounds?). For most participants, there is not much additional income.
additional training minutes:if you have the squad or a lucky schedule you get 48 minutes more per position. How much does this amount to? Maybee 1 pop in two weeks? Maybee 1.5 pops? So how much is that worth?
Enthusiasm: in the first rounds, you get away with playing Playoff normal, and you can push your enthusiasm to around 12 for games. But in my oppinion, enthusiasm is overrated, and not worth so much.

To me, this does not sound huge, and the teams that make it beyond round 3 earn their rewards. An arcade type of play would lessen the fun of B3 a lot in my eyes.

I am not against the B3...go Toroo and Sculpins.

However you don't make much of an argument here. You tell people that they are wrong to claim that B3 gives an advantage without quantifying, yet you go on to make your point by saying things like, "Maybe," and "in my opinion," and, "to me, this does not sound huge."

Then you follow up those gems by saying that you think changing the B3 to arcade would lessen the fun, yet you fail to bother explaining how or why. Would B3 really be less fun in arcade? I'm not sure of that. A lot of people seem to enjoy their private leagues, and I have to think that running the B3 games in a manner similar to the national team games would be at least as enjoyable.

I think it is undeniable that an advantage exists, even if it is not as large as some people seem to think it is. The question is if the advantage is unfair. I do not believe it is either, so I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that you cannot demand that people quantify and then yourself become even more vague than those with whom you disagree.




I do not think that a lot of the people who are complaining about the B3 would complain about a direct monetary compensation for the winner of a league or a cup, so why not just consider this the alternative? I would have to think that most of the participants are not getting as much out of the B3 as they would from, say, a million dollar champions bonus.

Sorry, I did not have much time this morning, so I left out, why I like the current format better than an arcade style game.

okay, I'm in this game, because I like manager kind of games, because I like a challenge and I like Basketball. The current format challenges me more than an arcade type thing:
I have to make a decision, where I set my priorities (choose between doing good in the league, the cup or/and B3). If I had unlimited resources, I could do good in all three, since I have not... To make that decision, I have to see, who are my opponents this week, and next week (although I don't know all of them yet), and then I have to plan whom to play and hope, my good players are not overplayed (or train "game shape"). Out of these decisions, I then get rewarded (hopefully) by winning and by earning some extra Cash, and maybe some training minutes.
So, in the arcade version, I field my best team no matter what. I don't get any rewards, I don't suffer any pains, only my ego is bolstered, when I win. For me, this would not be anywhere near as satisfying, as the current format. I hope, I have made my oppinion on why I don't like the arcade version as much clear.

To your first point (quantifying and then stating opinions): If I had no oppinion, I would not write in this forum. I could have tried to make my point in a better way (first stating facts, and then give my oppinions in a clear and conciese way), that's true.

And when I read a lot of these posts, I do get the feeling, that people are complaining because of the compensation, that participants receive in B3.

Last edited by zimiwings at 6/6/2008 11:17:29 AM

So, in the arcade version, I field my best team no matter what. I don't get any rewards, I don't suffer any pains, only my ego is bolstered, when I win.

I would treat the B3 like PL leagues. I usually play top players but do some experimenting, move players into other positions, or use basic tactics as a barometer of how training/GS has affected my team.

Also, I would hesitate to use my best team/tactics for a no-reward tournament, as it just gives away more info to my opponents, especially ahead of big games.

Last edited by brian at 6/6/2008 11:31:47 AM

To your first point (quantifying and then stating opinions): If I had no oppinion, I would not write in this forum.

I didn't mean you shouldn't state opinions, I meant that you should not call out people for failing to quantify their opinions and then fail to quantify your own.

And when I read a lot of these posts, I do get the feeling, that people are complaining because of the compensation, that participants receive in B3.

You are right about that, but I think you miss my point. Some of the people who are complaining about B3 benefits would happily agree to paying the cup winner or league winner some prize money. I was pointing out that there was even less benefit coming from B3.

Totally agree with this.

Arcade mode would take away a lot of strategic desicions and make it less interesting.

I fear that it would be like PL games, you want to win the, but if you don't, you dont really care.

Totally agree with this.

Arcade mode would take away a lot of strategic desicions and make it less interesting.

I fear that it would be like PL games, you want to win the, but if you don't, you dont really care.

that's a nonsense. PL is organized in a private way (really? :P). there are is not income for matches. if you lose you can create a new one with friends.
arcade doesn't meen PL. there are many people asking the NTs to play as arcade competitions. I don't think that will decrease the interest in NT

Your team is probably one of the most scouted teams in the US so no matter who you put on the floor, who you buy, who you sell it would be seen and probably scrutinized.

I don't think the recommendation said no-reward. I would welcome a tournament played in arcade mode without the attitude. All the strategy is still there since you have to manage your lineup and tactics. It also reduces the negative feelings that have occured with the saving of attitude.

If you are the best, this mode would prove it.

Wow!!!

I just read this whole thread from start to finish for the first time. I especially liked the part where one guy started going on about how cheaters did not represent America. I haven't laughed so hard in a long ime. Look at our current home run king, president, 4x400 relay team (3 of 4 on the juice!?!), basically the entire country is a seething horde of cheaters and manipulators from the born-again money preachers to the Super Bowl winning coaching staff to Enron. If, in fact, the NBBA is cheating or manipulating the rules it would only be right.

Having said that, and with the caveat that I will never mutual TIE because I don't think it is in the spirit of competition, if others want to do it, go for it.

Now, on to the topic. My lame little team played in the BBB. We played one game, got smoked, and returned to the world of the small fry. It was awesome. The game was away at an arena that held 5758. The total revenue for the match was 180k, of which I received $90k I think. I bought two players to try and strengthen my squad ( not quite...ha ha ) which cost me $900k. I reaped an impressive -$810k monetarily from the tournament. In training I fared a lot better- I got 5 pops that week. 3 in free throws and 2 negative pops in stamina.

Benefit? I can't wait to win my league and once again have the opportunity to lose 800 grand and realize 1 net pop. Honestly.

Sure things might be better and I'm sure improvements will come, but I (being one of the first to suggest a TOC http://www2.buzzerbeater.org/BBWeb/Forum/read.aspx?thread=22182&m=1 )
think it is an awesome aspect of BB.

Good luck to all the teams left in the tourny.

Now, on to the topic. My lame little team played in the BBB. We played one game, got smoked, and returned to the world of the small fry. It was awesome. The game was away at an arena that held 5758. The total revenue for the match was 180k, of which I received $90k I think. I bought two players to try and strengthen my squad ( not quite...ha ha ) which cost me $900k. I reaped an impressive -$810k monetarily from the tournament. In training I fared a lot better- I got 5 pops that week. 3 in free throws and 2 negative pops in stamina.

Benefit? I can't wait to win my league and once again have the opportunity to lose 800 grand and realize 1 net pop. Honestly.

Exactly. And as I said before, that was the situation for half of the teams in the competition. And not only for small teams. I, for example, had a decent team and thought I could make a good run in the B3. But I had only 10 players in my squad, which was enough to win the league last season, but with 4 games per week now I would need much more. So I bought 8 new weaker players. Then the draw comes and I faced in my first game one of the favorites (Springlfield Drunkers) and lost.

With that 1 extra game I got a little revenue cash and 1 miserable extra pop (which is useless because doesn't really increase the value of this weak player). Now all the money I spent on those 8 guys is wasted, because they are not being played. When I try to sell them, I lose a lot of money (because of the taxes) and my enthusiasm drops one whole point for every sale.

And I will emphasize again: only 25% of the teams on B3 had more than 2 games on it.

Last edited by raonne at 6/8/2008 9:49:28 AM

and my enthusiasm drops one whole point for every sale.

Huh? I thought this change got replaced by the new tax system?