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268232.19 in reply to 268232.18
Date: 3/18/2015 5:13:43 PM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
13911391
Yeah ISO can have a much more even shot distribution if you have good passing on the iso player.

This Post:
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268232.20 in reply to 268232.19
Date: 3/18/2015 5:37:47 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Wait, is it only one player who is the focus of the offense or can be more than one?

I also have another question for you guys. Let's say my opponent has 54OD at PG-SF spots (19-19-16) and my guards have all 14-16 Passing and 15-17 Driving at best, would you say that's enough to create the offense? Unfortunately there is so much defense in my D2 league (I've seen Wondrous OD ratings with 1-3-1...) that every time one of the other top teams tries II or OI they are unhappy with the shot distribution

This Post:
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268232.21 in reply to 268232.20
Date: 3/18/2015 6:14:16 PM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
13911391
I havent done much in depth play by play analysis so I can't say how many players are focussed on in what situations. When I have more time I hope to do that.

Against that high defense I think most offenses have trouble. Without knowing the rest of the skills/players/opponent it's hard to say how Iso performs compared to other offenses.

This Post:
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268232.22 in reply to 268232.21
Date: 3/18/2015 6:35:08 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Against that high defense I think most offenses have trouble.
That's true but flow is a team's rating not individual only, so provided that you have decent passing spread out among your players, you might have a decent and 'reasonable' shot distribution in LI/PTB/Princeton pretty much any 'focused' tactic. In ISOs, if I'm understanding correctly, if the go-to guy can't overpower his defender you're toast, much like in Patient, except in Patient the designated scorer will just try to score and in ISOs he can also create for others (so he has more options).

From: DoG
This Post:
00
268232.23 in reply to 268232.22
Date: 3/19/2015 7:04:35 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1616
tried Outside Iso last game with a SG at PF slot - inconclusive as far as i can tell

My players took mostly inside shots or drives to the hoop based on the PBP but in fairness my PG has high driving and his C looked overmatched (170k sallary vs 40k). Shot distribution appeared even at all positions. Flipside I have decent to good passing / driving at all positions.

Also had way too many fouls than normal.

I played 3-2 he played M2M. Weboth set TIE

This Post:
00
268232.24 in reply to 268232.17
Date: 3/19/2015 9:36:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
4343
People in my league (with top teams) hate ISOs. Apparently when there is no clear mismatch and you go against very good defenses (for your level of offense) the shot selection is not as 'reasonable' as in other tactics.


NTs have been widely using ISOs for some time now, and it does look like overcoming strong defenses (at least getting to nice percentages vs. the defense level in front).
(32376)
(32391)

A main difference with Patient I see then is the shot distribution, since there's no previously appointed position.
I also think the engine selects the isolated player on a play-by-play basis, which would contribute to the balanced.

I guess the conclusion to be successful with ISOs is, basically, to train perimeter players in inside skills, and viceversa. Then obviously supported by 5 players with DR-HN and also PS as an extra.

This Post:
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268232.25 in reply to 268232.24
Date: 3/19/2015 11:34:10 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Well let's put it this way: a player with 170k salary (a NT player) with 19 OD will also have reasonable high Passing, JS, DR, you name it, so the situation is a bit different compared to 80k-90k players with 19-20 OD. So that we're clear 19/13/19 18/20/15 9/9/x/x has a salary of roughly 170k with the current parameters I think. With an 80k salary your player will look more like this: 17/11/18 15/16/14 9/9/x/x. If you go lower than 80k you will have to sacrifice PA, JS, perhaps driving even further.

The 2 players above will perform very differently against a defender with 19 OD. That's why, I don't think, you can take the NT as a general example to draw general conclusions.

This Post:
00
268232.26 in reply to 268232.25
Date: 3/19/2015 11:44:19 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
4343
That's a good point, it's usual to face high defenses on a club level (it doesn't cost that much) while your offense does not get there (due to money, again) comparing to NT teams. Thank you.

From: Balev
This Post:
00
268232.27 in reply to 268232.26
Date: 3/25/2015 7:05:18 AM
Kinky Koalas
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
110110
Second Team:
Down Under Drop Bears
What do people say about which skills are necessary for isolation offences?

This Post:
11
268232.28 in reply to 268232.27
Date: 3/25/2015 8:29:34 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Probably you need the iso guys to be able to dominate their defenders.

I have a nice example from my own league on why people think isos don't work unless you are at super-high level (NT or at least D1) or playing against weaker competition: (79191190)
bbstats: 152 to 128 (+24 to me and nearly a 20% extra on the 128)
Team efficiency: 98 to 80 (another 20% to me)
PP100: mine was better at nearly every position (except for PF where my kid lost out to his opponent 72.5 to 75.9)

Both my guards have high passing and my SG has also pretty good scoring skills, but my opponents' guards have very high OD, especially the guy guarding my SG, who was likely the go-to guy.



Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/25/2015 9:34:02 AM

This Post:
00
268232.29 in reply to 268232.28
Date: 3/25/2015 8:47:59 AM
Kinky Koalas
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
110110
Second Team:
Down Under Drop Bears
Thank you so much.

I might mail you.

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