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Here is a link to the game:

http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/49555334/boxscore.aspx

How my best 2 inside shootes in the game had taken toghter less shoots then anyone of the other 3 players?(1 of them had taken like both of them the other 2 took more shoots then both each!)

Let's take the minutes out of the discussion, since the three "bad shooters" played full game. Per min, the stats are:

0.24 (only 0.19 from PF taking the bench into account!)
0.38 (0.38 throughout the game from C)
0.52
0.60
0.67

Just looking at the numbers, this seems like a typical case of having trouble getting the ball to the big guys. And the match report (49555334) corresponds to that. The problem is typically the skill distribution of your guards, although the opponent can obviously also affect the outcome. I looked at your relegation series and about half a dozen random league games from last season. You seem to run a lot of outside offenses. If you were using pretty much the same players (especially guards) now, the skill distribution may really be the problem you are seeing.

Is this a bug or the programing is doing more then what the game manual says?

The game engine is very complex. What the players try to do (according to your tactics) may not quite work due to poor lineup etc. I am no expert of the isolation tactics, but every time I see things like your SG going 0-12 (and he was 50-167 last season) from the three-point line, I would try and analyze the player skills and how they fit to the tactics. It looks your guards are forced to take bad shots, since they can't get the ball to the bigs.

First WallyOop i appricate your explain but in the bottom line u say that the tactic uncluse stuff that are not explained in the manual(the team also need to pass the ball to the big guys)and that's a part i think MUST be included in the manual to prevent confusion,also my SG alone took 12 shoots to 3 point in an inside Isolation game tactic that alone show in my opinion that the this tactic is not working as it should be...hee is a line to my relegetion playoff game:

http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/48968207/boxscore.aspx

As u can see i played Outside Isolation and my players shoot 9 time from 3 point arc.

in the game that i played inside Isolation they shoot 21 time from the 3 point arc...the diffrance is too big to be an engine stuff in my opinion...it just show that inspite the name this tactics DO NOT do what they should do...i do know they are still new and hope they will be improved becouse i see that they need it badly.

Second Manon i like the way u think and that may be a good point but the 15 IS guy also got 10 DR and my SG got 13 DR so still the diffrance in the number tof shoots taken is TOO BIG and even if you were right it need to be in the manual...i will try this tactic on other games when i think it ight help but i surly far less think of her as effective as her name.

Poor DR should result ball loss or bad shoots not almost total lack of shoot taking...something it root in this tactic...

And i play a lot Motion and Outside Isolation and they work good! any player without high JS take a lot less shoots and the high JS players take more shoots as it should be.

First WallyOop i appricate your explain but in the bottom line u say that the tactic uncluse stuff that are not explained in the manual(the team also need to pass the ball to the big guys)and that's a part i think MUST be included in the manual to prevent confusion

Isolation offenses: The team will try to find their best offensive player and clear out an area for him to create his own shot.

The manual needs to be taken into account as a whole. It should anyway be quite clear that there are interactions with your own team mates and the opponents.

also my SG alone took 12 shoots to 3 point in an inside Isolation game tactic that alone show in my opinion that the this tactic is not working as it should be...

No. This fact more likely points you to problems in matching your players' skills with the chosen tactics. Your team is instructed to find their best offensive player inside, yet your SG happily goes 0-12 from the three-point line. Why? Simply looking at the stats, it could be a sympton of a bug as you believe, but more likely your SG is forced into taking bad shots. While it is important to understand that we are looking at a single game (that was not even randomly chosen), would you not expect him to score on some (like 2 or 3) of those 12 shots if he was just concentrating on outside game and not caring about the tactics? I mean, your outside rating is better than your inside rating in this game, and your SG has not a single time been worse from the three-point line than in this game all the way since season 14 when he started.

Ok then the manual should say "This tactic look to find the best inside shooter\bad inside defender rate.

and i dont know it but my SG got 9 IS and 13 DR so even aginst a 16 ID i ecpect him to do better then 1-32!! and not even 1 line shoot of course...i truly belive the engine wass working bad and not in the way the programers wanted in this specific game,i just hope in wont happen agian.

next time i choose look inside,that tactic at least works.

I thought it was pretty obvious that in any offensive tactics your team tries to find the player that. the offense is meant to score. If you got to low flow then they will take bad shots at the end of the shot clock.
And just because you chose to play a offense it doesn't mean you'll win with it or that it will work well. Some offenses actually needs adaptation of your team for it to work well

The other thing that I think needs to be taken into account is that a lot of inside shots normally are passes from teammates to players who are in or moving into a good scoring position. In the isolation, they're not looking for a guy who is open and in a good shooting position; they are looking for a specific player and he may not be anywhere near a prime shooting position. No matter how nice his IS may be, if he's getting the ball 18 feet away from the basket, he'll need to beat his man off the dribble to get to use that IS.

I think if there's a "flaw" here it's that the inside player was unable to create his own shot at an effective enough rate for this game. I suppose if instead of passing the ball up, the isolated player jacked up a bunch of contested 15 footers instead, it might have looked more like anticipated. The few times I've run isolation I actually was expecting the isolated player to get more assists because he wasn't a great driver, but had quite nice passing for a big man.

I agree with WallyOop, passing and handling of the guards have a big role here. It's not all that is needed but they should be able to pass against the opponents outside defense.
Manon's explanation with matchups doesn't really work (it's not coded that way). Hrudey may be onto something though, there may be some tweaks needed.

I would like to know more on how Inside Isolation works,it's clear to me that it not work like it said in the manual.

The think that i hate here is that Outside Isolation DOES work as it is said in the manual...damit! the diffrence with the is so annoying as it should be almost the same but it's sure not.

Last edited by Doctor J at 8/28/2012 10:29:20 AM