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well said!

When I saw your SF in the trainee's thread i was like damn, got serious competition. Lol

You don't need to worry, Direwolf told me to make him a NT PF instead :)

J-Dog is right,you should not care about SF rating,while it can give you some idea on the secondary skills of the SFs(inside SF without passing skills has much lower rating than a Sf with passing skills,also if passing is not a so important skill)

I think people really never understood what a SF entails. A SF is an inside/outside hybrid. Even if your team favors an outside or an inside attack, you can't completely neglect one facet of their core skills just like you don't neglect the passing or ballhandling of a SG or the rebounding of a big man. People just have this idea that SFs are jump shooting guards with a little better inside skills, that really isn't true at all.

I completely agree

P.S. 9 in driving for an inside SF is a great value.I know very well Papalia's history,because he was the best of the world for his age when he was younger and was in the U21 when he was 20 while my player was fighting to enter in the same season under 21(he was 21),and I can say you that he started with very bad skills in driving,passing and bad in JR,but our NT staff find problems to sustain his training so they decided to work a lot on driving

P.P.S. I had at the same time in my league my player that I yet show you(strater in spanish I division),a former Sf of the italian Nt team stronger than the mine(Ardoino),an awesome 40k Sf that was only -9 in the first six skills to my player(Mir),and a 80k guard that plays in SF position... and I'm only in a III division

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 9/2/2010 8:28:31 AM

For example check out Paul Wendon who averages 20 PPG in France Pro A yet his salary is only 50k.

He is balanced on everything. I could just as easily say his passing, handling and driving are the forces behind this.

The difference is most small forwards have an equal amount of outside skills as him if not more, but few have his inside shot.

You give me a SF with these skills (Wendon's guard skills):

Jump Shot: sensational Jump Range: proficient
Handling: prolific
Driving: prolific Passing: proficient

And I will make him a big part of my offense, whether he has average or sensational inside shot. I also disagree that you can do away with the handling and just have driving (I don't think you said that but someone did).

Of course, Wendon's sensational inside shot makes him much more flexible. But also much more rare.

Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 9/2/2010 2:14:16 PM

I enjoy it when a person who has never had a SF anywhere near the caliber of Wendon or played in leagues where these sorts of players exist try to argue about Wendon's effectiveness and skills with the guy who actually trained him and used him for many, many seasons.

Those guys outperform SFs with 15+ JS and 15+ Driving but low inside skills.

I did not see your edit until now but with this comment it seems to me we are saying the same thing.

First, you need jump shot on a SF. And of course you need both inside and outside d (I will leave the debate on which is more important for the moment, but suffice it to say that you need some of both). I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

After that, I don't think you can rank offensive skills on a SF (as some are trying to do). There are too many other things to consider. For example:

-are you playing with an inside, outside or neutral focus? Which flavour?
-how much you can afford to pay on the transfer list (or, if you are training him: how much time you can spend on his training plus his potential)?
-how much salary you can afford?

I will not disagree that inside shot helps for a SF. But the degree to which it helps depends on the offense you use. If I wanted to be a pure outside oriented team, I would not care as much about inside shot. For a motion offense I would focus mostly on handling and passing, with some emphasis on jump range. For a run and gun, mostly jump range, handling and driving, with less emphasis on passing. Although, the SF is slightly less important in a run and gun than he is in a motion.

Anyhow, that's my take. Feel free to disagree if you want.

how would he disagree ? your completely right

feel free to disagree :)

Feel free to disagree if you want.

I think that in a R&G a Sf is more important than in a motion offense,because while in R&G only guards and Sf take the main part of the shots,in a motion offense also the PF take a lot of shots