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So who will you vote for? :D

Wyatt, I'm not sure you noticed but you are no longer in the running. If you do know, and you stil want to debate to convince people you are the right candidate, go ahead, just know they can't vote for you anymore.

as for this

but it means that the club needs to pay 40k per week more for that player for skills it will most likely never even make use of.

whaaaaa!!!!!?!

If anyone needs an explanation, they need a lot to learn, but I'll give it, as else they might not learn.

Sorry Revo, but it looks like you are trying to convince me of not voting for you. ;þ

looks like you misunderstood me on that thing.

what i meant is: an a Guard, who has an ID 7 RB 7, will grab some rebounding ( say 5 a game) where as a Guard with 1 RB 1 ID will grab 1, maybe 2 RB a game. are those 3 RB's a game worth 40k extra a week? for the NT, sure thing, but for a player on club lvl, it ain't worth it.

i'd rather have an extra lvl or 2 in OD more (or 1 more llv JS, JR and OD) with ID 1 RB1 on my guard, than have a RB 7 ID 7 on a PG with less primairy skills. that is for my own team. For the NT, the better the secundairies, the higher the chance is that he'll make the NT, BUT that only applies for players who have got a high potential ( we're talking about a minimum of Superstar potential here. anything lower, and those extra skillpoints in RB and ID will mean that he'll be capping sooner, and thus, have less strong primairies)

that is what i meant by that example.

Last edited by AthrunZala at 1/16/2011 4:24:39 AM

hmmm, we'll see what Thys brings us on the NT lvl this year, but i'm still not going to ask my SG's or PG's to get RB training.

IF they got a nice pair of secundairies, so be it, but i'll still prefer a SG with 2 more lvls of OD over an SG who has instead of those 2 lvls of OD ID and RB lvl 7

@Joe: you say maybe? I say definatly.

@Revo: I think you convinced me now. Of course you need to look at it player per player and see how the skills are. 2 more on OD is not the same as 2 more on OD... It all depends on how high the OD already is, or is not.

I know 1 thing for sure. In the example Revo gave the first player who cost me 90k/wek wouldn't see the field in the entire week on my team, so he'd make me loose 90k each week.
The second one might cost me 40k more, but at least I'd be using him well in games. So the choice actually is: pay 90k and get nothing in return, or pay 130k and get a decent player. I think the choice is obvious.

In most cases, unless the OD realy is lacking (and in this case we can just better cry as there is no decent SG available at all and we might be better playing an SF or PG with shooting on the SG spot), I'd gladly sacrifice 2 levels of OD to get 6 more on each ID and rebounding.

Forget about the hattrick way of thinking. Primary skills are still primary here ni BB, but the secundaries are in fact secundary, and not 10 leagues behind as in the other manager game. In this game lacking a skill, even if a secondary, realy can cost you several games.
To take your example: a SG who is tremendously good outside but has all 1's on the insides, you are unable to play a man to man defense, because if you do, you will get your ass kicked by the oponent when he goes low post or even worse look inside as the SG will have no defense before him and probably scores 80% of his shots. So you are forced to choose for an other defense. the only other defenses, except for pressing, focus either inside or outside, if you have to gamble and gamble wrong, this will cost you the game where a man to man should have won you the game if you had the right SG.
The pressing option is something you can only use in specific circumstances.
No I definatly do not want to find myself in such a situation. I'd rather sacrifice 3 on OD then to have to drop the man to man defense...

There is no way that being able to get primaries higher still is a good excuse to keep secundaries low. There are also 3rd skills, and ok, keep those under 4 if that makes your secundaries and primaries better, but secundaries should be at least 4 or 5 imo, and if you talk about primaries over 14, they even need to get higher, to at least 6 or 7.
The only exceptions are few: a PG (and SG) can deal with a 1 on SB, and the C can deal with a 1 on JR. It possibly will cost you a few points in some games, but it's not significantly, and perfect players don't exist, there will always be some points where a few points will get lost.
But a SG with 1 on reb and 1 on ID wouldn't enter my team, not if you give me 1M extra cash.

Couldn't have said it better.

From what I recall, a BB once said that once your player dominates in one aspect of the game, he dominates. An extra pop in that category won't make much of a difference at all.
For example a guard with JS/JR at 14 or 18 doesn't make any difference if you are playing against a guard with OD at 12. Once you're a couple of levels above your opposition in a specific category, you better start training other skills like passing or handling, (which don't increase salary of SG/SF/PF/C, and don't influence the cap all that much, either, I think) because an extra pop in JS (14->15) will only matter if you play against someone who has OD >= 13.

I'll vote for whoever values skills like PASSING, DRIVING and IS for smalls.

Remember. If you play against a PG who's a great long-range shooter, but cannot drive and finish inside, you don't have to be quick, you can overplay and stay very close to him, because there is no threat he will explode past you.
But, if he can drive, you HAVE to give him space, so having good driving/inside skills will actually help his outside shooting, and in BB, his salary will be more efficient.

Last edited by Thelonious at 1/16/2011 9:26:22 AM

i disagree and that for the simple fact:

if you are facing a SG with JS 20 JR 14 and you can chose; have your OD lvl 16 (with RB and ID) or have it lvl 18 (without RB and ID) then i'm taking the second one.

difference won't be as big on OD 18 or OD 20 on that point, but between 16 and 18, it has a big impact.

i recall reading a post form a BB, that the difference in defence with the offensif skill, has alot to do with the chance to score. well, i remain in favor of what i said earlier. for NT, secondairies are beter, but i refuse to ask any manager to train a guard in rebounding, or to trian a C in HA/PA. first off, that manager needs to play him 48 minutes out of position, which teams who play in the BBBL obvliously can't afford to do, and secon off, trainng a PG/SG (which are typical small) at the age of 24/25 or older on RB, will make em pop real slow. it's just not realistic. if they got nice secundaries, so be it, but i'm not gonna give up primairies for secundaries skills.

Revo

Yes but look at it from a team perspective.
Is it better to have your PG at 20 OD and 8 ID and the PF+C at 8 OD and 20 ID?
Or have the PG at 18 OD and 10 ID, while having your PF+C at 10 OD and 18 ID?
If you face a team with a PG who is good inside, and bigs who can shoot, then I take the latter.

I have no experience at that level, so I'm assuming a lot of things, but I also try to read between the lines.
I think (and hope) that it's how the game is evolving.

Last edited by Thelonious at 1/16/2011 8:59:29 PM

Yes but look at it from a team perspective.
Is it better to have your PG at 20 OD and 8 ID and the PF+C at 8 OD and 20 ID?
Or have the PG at 18 OD and 10 ID, while having your PF+C at 10 OD and 18 ID?
If you face a team with a PG who is good inside, and bigs who can shoot, then I take the latter.

I have no experience at that level, so I'm assuming a lot of things, but I also try to read between the lines.
I think (and hope) that it's how the game is evolving.

the point i wanted to adres is that from club perspective, it's hard to train players in secundairies for one, and it makes salary go up pretty fast aswell... and 'im not to sure someone wants to pay an extra 40-50k for a player (maybe in the BBBL, but in II, extra 40 to 50k really hurts your economy, and i'm not even speaking about III or lower, where that would most likely trash your economy) a NT coach also has to keep in mind that the managers need to be able to pay the players salary. It's no use asking people to make 600k C's, cause they'll only be going from one team to another to start with AND their GS will never be in good shape either. You need to try and find a balance for people to pay those salaris.

and considering your suggestion, an OD 18 ID 10 PG could possibly play SF, as an OD 10 ID 18 C could do so to. so i'd pick up those players to have more options at the SF spot, but i'm not gonna ask trainers of C's, who typically have to pay 120 to 200k salary a week, to play their C's out of position on the PG spot to get some extra OD. they just can't afford to lose the production of their C in that way...

Revo