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Bugs, bugs, bugs > Offensive rebounds

Offensive rebounds

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19533.21 in reply to 19533.19
Date: 3/18/2008 7:52:15 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3535
I try to give my contribution :)

- choosing a 2-3 tactic improves defensive rebounding
- as a result of the improved defensive rebounding, the AI tends to see that the current lineup is a very effective one for rebounding and so favours those players, as well as making adjustments that take advantage of the good rebounding

a) 2-3 zone improves the defensive rebounding of all players. I guess the improvement is proportional to the skill. so...
b) Not the current lineup, but the players with better rebounding are seen by the AI as performing especially well. So...
c) The coach will play more players with high rebounding skill (among starters and rotations). So...
d) The team will have an higher rebounding skill overall and will perform better also offensively.

Moreover, the coach during the game makes in-game adjustments based upon what's going right and what's going wrong, and those adjustments again tend to increase the rebounding at both ends. This adds up to a smaller bump than you were getting in defensive rebounding, but I do think it adds up to a non-zero bump, and one that's a bit complicated to think about how to adjust, because what's happening in effect is that the coach is basically realizing that his team is rebounding well and is trying to take maximum advantage of it.

This is a similar story, regarding not the choice of the players but the tactics used.

Am I wrong here? :)

This Post:
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19533.22 in reply to 19533.21
Date: 3/18/2008 7:57:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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a) 2-3 zone improves the defensive rebounding of all players.

Are you sure about this?

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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19533.23 in reply to 19533.22
Date: 3/18/2008 8:07:17 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3535
a) 2-3 zone improves the defensive rebounding of all players.

Are you sure about this?

Of course not... how could I be? :)

Edit: but it sounds sensible to me...

Last edited by Newton07 at 3/18/2008 8:08:21 PM

This Post:
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19533.24 in reply to 19533.23
Date: 3/18/2008 8:31:08 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
224224
a) 2-3 zone improves the defensive rebounding of all players.

Are you sure about this?

Of course not... how could I be?

Well, I am just as unsure in my theory, but I will toss it out here for the benefit of everyone.

Is it possible that the zone tactics do exactly what they say? As in, 2-3 weighs higher the ID and RB of your SF in the team ratings.

I am not sure this works for rebounding. But look at defense and offense: Exactly 3 players form IS and ID, and the zone tactic is 2-3. Four players form OS and OD, and the zone tactics are 3-2 and 1-3-1.

Rebounding, on the other hand, involves the whole team, so I am not sure what to make out of it. But I've noticed that I don't get as much increase in rebounding from the 2-3 zone as I would have expected if it gave bonus in rebounding to all positions.

Now all this could all be a load of bull, and some of it certainly is. But hopefully it can start a discussion.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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19533.25 in reply to 19533.24
Date: 3/18/2008 8:56:43 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3535
Not sure all these discussions belong in this forum... :)

Have you noticed that every single time your players foul, they do it against players playing in the same position? SF against SF, C against C and so forth.
No matter if you play zone or man to man defense. It's like they always play one on one.

This fact makes me believe that, for example, when my SF takes an inside shot, the probability that his shot is successful depends not on the overall inside defense of the opposite team but on the ID skill of the opponent's SF (offensive flow, passing skill, stamina, experience... they also have an influence but let's keep them out for clarity).

That's why I believe that the tactics affect directly the skills of individual players (all or some I would not know).
The game attitude (TIE, CT) used to do the same (according to the news about the game engine changes).

Last edited by Newton07 at 3/18/2008 8:57:27 PM

This Post:
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19533.26 in reply to 19533.25
Date: 3/19/2008 1:27:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
224224
This is true. Players are definitely matched against each other based on position under the current GE. However, I think that team ratings modify individual player skills. This means, all else being equal, a player with mediocre IS has a higher chance to score on a team with strong IS rather than on a team with pitiful IS.

I am not saying tactics do not affect individual skills. What I suggest can be reduced to certain tactics affecting the skills of certain positions, not of all positions. But it is hard to know for sure.

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 3/19/2008 1:27:57 PM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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19533.28 in reply to 19533.27
Date: 3/19/2008 6:59:49 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1919
Team skills affect things as well as player skills. In a zone defense, team skills are dominant; the foul is assigned to a particular man, but he had a lot of help (either positive or negative depending upon his skills relative to that of the team) from the rest of the team.
Here's something I don't understand about the zone defense. Why is it that my players only ever foul or challenge the shots of the opposing player in the same position?

Last edited by dhoff at 3/19/2008 6:59:57 PM