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So he trained 2 players and now he is in "Kõrgliiga" so you can train enough players.

Look you chose the wrong example, all you've proven is that you need to save more than the opponents in order to buy players. So this is the thing. Train 1 or 2 guys, primary training only, buy high TSP low salary guys, stay close to the salary floor so you keep making good profits. Invest 12 million net in 4 seasons in players and you will be ok.

It doesn't solve the problem of the game as a whole, though. Because let's say he trained 2 or 3 players over the last 10 seasons. Assuming he always trained that would be a total of 4 or 5 players in 10 seasons.

Restart the game, erase the auction market and allow only 1 to 1 trades. After 14 seasons how many trained (let's say 35k-40k salary) players would you reasonably have? Then you have the answer: either many users training and selling to others while playing with scrubs OR the system naturally creates a shortage of trained players. The fact that prices started to stop growing when they massively increased Free Agency should explain all of this better than I possibly can.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/7/2017 9:06:44 AM

Ok sorry I misunderstood: you are saying, screw training, just save at least 12 million in your first 10 seasons, spend it in the following 4 and you can have a good shot at D1 in any country. Correct?

Basically your argument is cruise for 10 seasons or so, save enough money while competing or tanking, just save money, then buy players that can take you all the way up, especially if you don't train a lot out of position when you are in D2 and D1. The guy was in D4 after 5 seasons (the first was nearly a full season), in D3 after 10, in that last one he started spending and promoted to D2, then 2 seasons in D2 and now D1. He started spending after 10 seasons when he went for D3 promotion (let D4 alone, who knows how many bots he was playing there: even if you had 500 users, you'd have had 164 human managers in 64 leagues, so 3 or 4 per league).

The OP clearly stressed the problem is with new users, who cannot compete and cannot acquire talent initially because prices are too high and therefore quit. Your answer for that is: actually you only need to wait 30, 36 months and then all will be ok. I don't think waiting and saving money for 10 seasons is a reasonable answer. 10 seasons is 2 and a half years of real life.

Your reasoning is very similar to suggesting people should just tank (or daytrade, though impossible nowadays) for years until they have enough money...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/7/2017 9:38:22 AM

There's a difference between being successful and seeing progress. Noone said you should be able to win a championship right away. If you want to sit around and pretend that everything is fine then go ahead, but the truth is that things are not fine. This game is bleeding users week after week and new users aren't staying. Would you want to remain in a game where you have to wait a year and a half before being able to make actual and useful improvements on your team?

At the moment I am in my 4th season and I am still nowhere near competitive. I just sit back, set my tactics every week for trainees to get minutes and thats it, no actual fun or thinking or anything like that, because I am not able to be competetive. Yes I could buy some players aged 35 and win the league ez, but whats the point? Next season I would be back in lowest div. So now I just wait, I have waited almost a year and by my calculation there will be another year (in real life time) until my trainees are ready and I can be somewhat competetive. So I accept, for new players it could be frustrating. But on the other hand, I have quite okay stadium already, I have level 5 coach to train my trainees and 1 of my youngsters is doing solid perfomances for Portugal U21, so there is at least that.

I don't think he's saying that you need to reach D1. He, and the OP, are saying that the current market is killing the possibility of trying to win games early on because new managers are completely priced out. And it wasn't the case in the past. I added that this is contingent on the way the training system currently in place systematically produces too few players.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/7/2017 1:11:45 PM

I started playing in season 9. I reached Estonian "Kõrgliiga" in season 26. You can do the math in months.

This is only my third full season, so obviously I don't know how things were back then. But from what I've heard on the forums it was completely different on the market compared to now.
I'm in a D2 where the majority of teams are bots. If I promote I'd get my ass kicked because the prices on players are so high that I, even with the promotion bonus, would not be able to buy players just to reach the salary floor which is 440k.
So my only real option is to beat up bots and play a human every now and then while I train players and save up money so that one day I can finally afford a decent D1 team.
I get it, Rome wasn't built in one day. I don't mind it taking time to build a top team. I just wish that time could be spent slowly advancing through the leagues. Instead, I'll have to wait at the top of a not very competitive D2 until I finally have the money to build a proper team. That has nothing to do with management and it's not very fun.