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I think that we are pretty much in agreement. My major points are towards bik's constant willingness to not understand why there must be balancing factors so that there are no Chelsea, Manchester United and so on in BB. And what I mean then is simply that some teams would be able to continously buy the best players on the market and still be the richest clubs. It is of course such mechanism BB tries to stop.

I have no real opinion about if the merchandise issue is working or not in a clever and correct way. So to repeat myself is it mainly to argue against bik's attitude where he very much indicates that big should be bigger because big has managed to create a very advantegeous environment for generating money thanks to huge successes in league, BB and so on. Allowing that would mean that best coach got no chance whatsoever to beat bik even if they are a much better manager. I should also make it clear that I am not indicating that bik is not a great manager. I can't judge on that based on what I know but I see no reason to doubt that he does not deserve his successes.

In real world it actually works pretty much like this in at least soccer. An English player sells more jerseys and especially attracts more people to the matches than a comparable abroad player. This is for sure a fact.

I'm not sure about that. Maybe that first class domestic player sells more T-shirts than first class foreign player. But can’t be true that average domestic player sells more T-shirts than first class foreign player. But that is way how BB counts merchandise revenue.

A team without English players certainly do lose from that. I know because I followed Coventry City for many years very closely and their fans very much preferred the domestic players ahead of foreign players of similar size. I also know that my hometown team who has played quite many seasons in highest Swedish league works similarly. Always a bigger interest from the fans in homegrown players, especially if they are young or has played in team for many seasons. I feel very certain that if you looked at factors to influence crowds and merchandise sale that there would be a huge impact from having players that been in the club since 15 or so. Few foreign players gets the same popularity as domestic players.

If you look at Chelsea I am sure that players like like John Terry and Dennis Wise have had a much bigger interest than many of the international stars that has been bought since Abramovich bought the club. I am just so positive that it works like that in especially England.

Do you really think that Drogba sells more shirts than Frank Lampard in England even if Drogba is a much more well-reputed player outside UK and more frequently been mentioned in lists of best players in the world?

Disagree.

Leo Messi is argentinian but is more loved on Barcelona than in Argentina :P

Messi is one of the absolute biggest stars in the world. Of course if you mention one of the 5 most popular players in the world that they would be huge in their club team as well. One interesting fact about Messi is that he actually came very early to Barcelona, before he was known to people. I think that helps a lot in making a player big. I do not get the impression that you can be as big if you like Zlatan Ibrahimovic arrives late or half-way through career. Do you think that he will be as popular for Barcelona fans? Then you always get more fans if you score goals or in basketball scores a lot of points. I do believe that things pretty much work like that in any sports.

But I still am very convinced that there is a clear bias in merchandise sell for domestic players compared to foreign players. I also do believe that having an international team player from especially a small country will increase your sellings as well, at least if it is huge markets like Japan or South Korea. At the same time you won't have more than a very marginal raise in merchandise if your team would have a Swedish international player in your team as people here bothers very little about any team no matter what. Was it one of the top 20 players in NBa it would change of course ...

Ive gone from $107k to $85k.

This week my Lithuanian got called up. I added a prominent French guard to my roster. Have some guys featuring on the leaderboard. Win all games and lost 20%.

Now thats considerably more than 20k. So anyone want to have a stab at explaining that?

Awesome, having a terrible PR man finally shows in the merchandising (lower unstable numbers). Happy I didn't fire my lvl 5 yet.

Really are you still wasting money with the PR? I think you're the last one

Hehe ned, if you had a lvl 5 pr manager, he'd let you know that you should have never sold the legendary Berry!

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 9/22/2009 12:07:35 PM

"Welcome to Season 10
...
As announced previously, teams with great players will sell more merchandise. More fans want to wear the jerseys of players who are amongst their league, division, country, or even world leaders. Further, fans prefer wearing the jerseys of players who grew up close to home; domestic players sell more merchandise than foreign players, and fans get particularly excited if they can watch one of your own draft picks lead your team to prominence. On the other hand, fans have seen too many high-priced players who can't deliver when it matters. It's performance that matters, not salary.
... "

but - it is not balanced. First part is less influencing than second (manifold). I had 4 of the 100 best players on the world, but my merchandise was 87k, and promoted team with 1 good and 2 average czech players got 130k.

And "It's performance that matters, not salary." is out, performance isn´t influencing. Maybe result, but not performance nor salary. On the basis of this statement I waited that foreign best players by performance bring similar money as domestic average player, but it is not right.

I sold Ikstens and Hosgord after changes in 10.season. But I haven´t chance to buy best Czech players, because all best czech players are in Hostivař. And I am not in Spain, Hostivař is strong competitor not as sheeps which allow somebody to win 5 promotions/championship in row without defy. Therefore I haven´t chance to win next 4-5 seasons and therefore I am dissatisfated. This season changes change chance-to-win rate Frýdek vs Hostivař from 1vs3 to 1vs3milions, without my interference.

And why do Hostivar have best Czech players? Because they bought them from other teams or because they have developed them into big players themselves?

Domestic stars has always been more interesting for the domestic public. Sure, having Messi or such player always will give more merchandise than a local player.

Are you sure that you are not punished in terms of merchandise mainly because you have bought and sold so many players throughout last seasons instead of the fact that you got few Czech players? I would believe that it will explain a larger proportion of the differences than you want to admit.

Why? because he was U21 trainer, he will stand for NT trainer in future and he prefer self-training. :-)

ok, best domestic players are more interesting than best international best player. but why average domestic players are more interesting than best international player? do you mean it is ok?

Hostivar was daytrader too, but daytrading isn´t usable today. Hostivar is happy because he drafted good players within the first seasons, and he trained him. I did some mistakes (maybe purchase of Ikstens with his salary), but it is not my mistake that I sold Sehnal in 3.season, I didn´t know that domestic players will advantaged in 10.season.

I added a prominent French guard to my roster.

I'm guessing this had a part in it - not the whole thing, a part.

Well sorry if ive misunderstood but are you suggesting that buying a new great player has an adverse effect on merchandise? Is purchasing someone now 'confusing' our fans? Maybe my fans took back the shirts they bought last week and demanded newer ones with my new players name OR perhaps they understand when i change the player numbers (supporters only!) and then dont spend any money thinking I might give someone else the number 2 shirt next week OR.... perhaps I should stick to buying players with 3-4 letters in their family name so that the jerseys with these sell faster than those with longer names!!

Dunno if that is true of Basketball shirts but in England if you want 'Wright Phillips' you will end up a lot worse off than buying the same shirt with 'Jo' on the back :D

Hey its a fun thread and at this stage of the game 7 seasons in, its a welcome change.... i know i wouldnt have the same performance with domestic players over the ones I've chosen to buy. As I've come to learn, the lower TV money and now merchandise is offset in other ways....its less than 10days old and some are crying out for a formula.... anyone thats played BB long enough knows that this isnt going to happen..... lets keep comparing results and see if we can figure it out quicker than it takes an NT player to pop a level of experience (still unknown)

It is not only drafts that has risen in price. If I look at price compare right now I would be able to sell older players for more money than I bought them for even if I haven't trained them. This might be an effect of removing free transfers from the market. You might have to pay pretty much also for a $5k 26 year old nowadays so not strange a trainable $5k player is very expensive. My 26 year old PF is suddenly listed as $50k to $300k and said to probably be better than these players as well. Just to mention an example.

This is not much of a problem, since the value of money is relative: you will sell for more, but it's likewise more expensive to buy a player.

Another thing that adds to inflated prizes are probably also that clubs gets richer. Been able to keep a lower salary profile with raising merchandise and so on. What might happen soon is that BB again tries to find some mechanisms to stop the increase in wealth. Some seasons ago they punished the top division teams in terms of arena income to reduce the effect of wealth. Will that happen soon again?

There is a built-in option which discourages accumulating wealth -- it kills part of your fan survey, so the more money you have, the less money you will earn from gate receipts.

Additionally, BB has never tried to look for mechanisms to stop the increase in wealth. The only related measure that was taken was with respect to prices rising faster than player skills (a questionable move, in retrospect).

It should be your strategical and tactical ability that should give you success not the fact that you managed to get to the top seasons ago and now have so big advantage economically that you will be able to easily change older players with players of same capacity but younger.

That's assuming that getting there had nothing to do with your strategical and tactical skill, which is a questionable statement, at the least.

Moreover, teams are able to make money by training and selling players more effectively than for game receipts, and that's where your "strategical and tactical ability" shows. Low-level teams have a fair chance of catching up. It takes time, of course, but it's supposed to.