BuzzerBeater Forums

Has it been any more development in the research of connection between Stamina and "optimal" GS minutes?

Last edited by thylacine at 12/23/2012 3:35:28 AM

My guys generally get 60-75 minutes a week without having any major gameshape issues. I would also be upset if a guy dropped 2 levels with only 75 minutes played, I've never seen that before, I've actually had players get 75 minutes and their gameshape has gone up the following week.

Out of curiosity, what's the stamina level of the player that dropped? I have no proof but I've generally found that players with higher stamina can handle more weekly minutes than players with lower stamina.

Out of curiosity, what's the stamina level of the player that dropped? I have no proof but I've generally found that players with higher stamina can handle more weekly minutes than players with lower stamina.

Stamina lvl 6...about 75 min if played 2 games a week in 1st team.....lvl 4 is fine for 60-65 min.

i agree with you,GS is more of luck than management of minutes.ofcourse a decent amount of minutes is required to maintain a decent GS but I have seen players of mine who have played 70+minutes pop to proficiennt GS while players playing the 'perfect amount of minutes' of around 60 drop from 9 to 8 or even from 8 to 7.

Whether your guys are in 8 or 9 GS is probably quite luck related. But if luck was more important than minute management, you'd see guys in the good range of minutes dropping below 7 GS fairly routinely (as occurs in Hattrick). And I am just as certain that if players in the good range were guaranteed to be no lower than 8, people would still say GS management is too dependent on luck when they have four or five guys with 8 rather than 9 GS.

I agree, there is obviously some randomness to gameshape, without randomness this game would be too boring/easy, but if you continue to abuse minutes you will definitely take a negative hit. Subsequently if you keep giving them the proper minutes you will get rewarded over the long haul.

What happened here, going from 9 to 7 without abusing the players minutes, clearly sucks. But at least it didn't happen heading into the playoffs (B3 or league). My best player started the season with 3 straight updates at 7 even though I gave him near perfect minutes. Sure it's frustrating but I'm just hoping that means the game engine owes me and he'll spend most of the remainder of the season at a 9.

You are right to correct me, it is closer to 9 out of 10 times, but still a bit higher than that I think.

Hi all !

I'd like to add 70-75 minutes is out of the optimal range without a masseur imo.
The optimal spot is "around 55 minutes", this is from Charles or Forrest, I can't remember right now, and not from the famous italian study.

By misrepresentation, the 48 figure is sometimes used as a minimum for GS management. But 48 is a figure for training only.
Without a masseur, 40 minutes is not worse than 70 minutes and usually you won't have dramatic GS drops, I have tested this.
For myself, I use 43-67 as optimal range without a masseur, the closer to 55, the better.
With a masseur, add 5/6 minutes to the higher limit, again the closer to 60, the better.
I am not completely sure of the effect of a masseur on the lower limit, Gs seems to become more erratic so maybe the lower limit needs to be raised aswell.

Also, the notion and use of the "optimal range" must be properly understood.
Being constantly in the fringe of the range will have considerably worst results than constantly hitting the optimal spot.
The optimal range is a guide for a compromise between GS management and success on the court because most teams need to play their best players more than 55 minutes a week, otherwise what's the point of having good on-form players ?

This all needs to be put into perspective by the GM, better Gs helps winning games but to achieve better Gs, you need to limit the playing time of your stars and there is no point in looking for proficient GS if the guys don't play, even more when the common team in BB have under par subs. So it's all about equilibrium, temperance and compromise. It's sometimes advisable from a management point of view to break the range and accept a higher risk of drops. It's all choices.

If the goal is GS management at all cost then aim for around 55 minutes w/o a masseur and around 60 minutes with a masseur.
The optimal range IS NOT the optimal spot.

There is no point in discussing GS variations over one week. Gs is calculated over several weeks, anything less than 3 weeks of playing time is unusable to me and insufficent data.

I had a guy miss an entire week, after getting around 30 minutes the week before, then just like 46 or something again...he went to 8.

This doesn't surprise me.
I consider that BBers are generally too bold with high minutes and too unadventurous with low minutes.

Terrible cases of Gs are rare so it's difficult to draw conclusions but by experience, i find it's better to start slow after an injury and at the start of the season. Plus even if it is unconfirmed, I have seen too many occurences of players hit again by an injury just after a recovery and I don't like to start good players immediately.

I have tested it two times with long-term injured players. One time with a player I bought with pitiful GS, he upped to strong in 3 weeks by playing "only" 37, 56, 55 minutes in that order. I can show you the player and the weeks but you'll have to take my word for the Gs levels.

What is usually taken as optimal by the tips of the forums is higher than what I find optimal myself.

Thank you.
This is really helpful.
My best player is out for two weeks right now, and I was considering how to integrate him back into my lineup when he comes back. Obviously, I wanted to start him right away, but it makes sense that I should take it easy on him for a week or two. He'll just be a really awesome sub for those two weeks.