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you dont understand the purpose of SF/PF.

What is this supposed to mean?

I'm all for non-inflated handling as a general rule. But two things: (1) I'm starting to revise that position, as wozz's recent elastic effect studies seem to indicate that it is an extremely important skill for elastic effect, and players like Jacob Martinez and Robby Serrano among others seem to show that by training a lot of 1v1 at first, then training other skills, you can benefit from the elastic effect to get ridiculously skilled players. Serrano in particular did a lot of 1v1 early on, and ended up having 5-10 more skill points than most of the other SFs we've ever had on the U21.

(2) Handling beyond 15 is pretty much agreed to be empty salary, but handling up to 15 is not useless at all. So for a NT-caliber guard, you might worry about how to get super-high driving while keeping handling low, but with only 8 potential, this guy's never going to be a NT guard. So handling isn't empty salary at all, and if he wants to make a point guard, then handling would be probably the third-most useful skill, behind passing and OD. So not at all useless, and not just a cap-killer.

You can't say both JR and handling need to be kept as low as possible. If you have high handling, you should want high JR because it's very, very cost-efficient for PGs. If you have high JR, then he's a SG and handling is free up to a point. I also don't see why you don't value JR; sure, it's only useful in shooting threes, which are inherently low percentage shots at higher levels, but at his level in D.V, threes are definitely more than viable. Additionally, if he wants to run patient, then the player is going to shoot a fair amount of threes, and thus JR is very useful. Patient seems like a distinct possibility; if Casper is trained optimally, then he's going to be super-expensive and likely the only way to afford him will be to surround him with a weakersupporting cast, making patient the best offense. Also, the second point of not training JS forwards is it trains JS significantly slower too, and JS is probably the single most important skill for scoring as a guard.

I'm new here too, so I don't really want to give any ill-advised opinions.

But regarding going after promotion and building a salary efficient roster: Why not spend a season improving arena and training that 18y superstar player? And then go after building a roster next year?

He can spend this season figuring out things anyway.

This is a good question, and there are multiple reasons for it:

1) Winning in D5 is actually really easy unless you have some stud in your league. It's not like your situation where you start in D2, as winning there will take an expensive roster. I'm confident I could build a team from the initial 300k bonus that would win most D5 leagues and would still be reasonably salary efficient. You gain a lot more money and experience in D4.

2) Building a salary efficient roster takes a lot of time and experience. Especially for someone who doesn't want to spend hours on the TL every day, each piece could take substantial time to find. Also the only way to get experience is to practice, the sooner he starts trying the sooner he starts getting better.

3) He doesn't have to go all-in right away. He can start slowly with some 5k-8k salary players and work his way up. These players can actually win games at this level and winning will attract fans which will pay for the players.

Edit: Also I should add this really shouldn't be done to the exclusion of arena building, that is important as well. But again his situation is different than yours as a big arena in D5 is worth far far less than a big arena in D2.

Last edited by w_alloy at 1/15/2013 9:36:57 PM

The statement on purpose of SF/PF JS training is as it looks, except it's mostly with regard to this specific player.

His HA after Driving i'd guess will be an 8 or 9. add 1.5 for PA (11), add at least 2.5 for all the OD, and another 1.5 for JS. you're already at 15 on a superstar, he's pretty much used up a significant chunk of salary that would be better allotted to something else.

Additionally, i wasn't suggesting JS for SF/PF as a method of training JS. I was suggesting it because the difference between IS and JS for SF/PF is so small (i think it's roughly .05 points at level 4 trainer), that it's much more valuable to trade that .05 sublevel gain in IS and the limited ID that it provides for nearly a 3rd of a sublevel in JS.

If you look at this type of training at the basic level, then yes it clearly isn't as useful as many other areas. However, if HA is a concern coming up and you have such a short player, then the tradeoff becomes a much more realistic plan of attack.

Edit: I do value 3's, but Wozz put together a display of the percentages that makes me less interested in getting JR past an 8 on any player at any point in time unless he's already there. The differences between a 9 and 11 in JR really isn't a lot in the scheme of things.

Last edited by FuriousSK at 1/15/2013 9:39:40 PM

3s aren't high percentage shots at the NBBA level, but in D.V it's an easy way to make a killing. Second, despite wozz's percentage calculations, all the NT guards have 12+ JR with the exception of Nix, who is on there for his passing only. So it can't be that pointless. And like I said, in a patient offense you're going to need some JR. I'm not saying train JR, but letting it come up with JS would be a good idea, definitely salary-efficient.

I just don't think at the D.V level it's that important to train a guy to shoot 3's. I'm fairly certain he could find some decent high range players to help him win it rather than train it (directly or indirectly).

Again, the biggest reason i suggest JS for SF/PF has almost nothing to do with JR or even JS. It's just that i feel the value of added JS is greater than a very slim picking in ID. of significant value again is the fact that there is no HA gain.


Last edited by FuriousSK at 1/15/2013 9:49:24 PM

Not saying train 3-point shooting (i.e. train JR), just saying that letting JR pop naturally with more efficient JS training is probably ideal. I guess I just don't like the idea of training sub-optimally or letting a training week go by without making an effort to get the most training possible. But again that's a judgment call. In any case we've presented both sides of the argument in great detail, so instead of continuing this argument ad infinitum I suggest we just let the OP decide what training would be best for his player, based on this information.

Well you could build your arena and invest in draft. Other than that good luck

So, i just started and inherited a team that's in last place. 6th and 7th are only 1 or 2 games better than me. I'm willing to be patient with the rest of this season. My original plan (after reading through the manual and newbie guide) was to train a couple of my Guards an 18 yr old (edit) Superstar and a 21 yr Old MVP, and look for one more guard to buy at 18/19 in order to train. In the meantime, I planned on just keeping the rest of my mediocre starters so I don't overspend before I know what makes this game tick.

But, a couple of the top teams were also replaced within the last week with new managers so I know their rosters were also reset like mine. Soooo, when i noticed that, it got me thinking...

with half a season left, is it a good idea...
a) to go buy some players to try to compete so I don't demote?
b) or stick with my original plan of patience?

Thanks

Personally.... I'd invest in draft, the 40K a week, and scout 18 year olds only after doing a combine. I would try and find the best available player I can find in the draft and take him with the 1st pick overall... You can assure getting first pick overall still by playing players in such a way to lose games, while maintaining training.

Train the 18year old superstar guard (how tall? skills?) and the 21 year old MVP, don't worry about a 3rd guy per say this season, focus more on getting that first pick in the draft.

Then next year... with that #1 draft pick, and your (now) 19 year old superstar train them together (if possible, otherwise sell the 19 year old superstar guard), and pick up PA or higher potential player, that would need similar training as your draftee...

There's no rush to promote to D. IV, yes, if you can promote you should... but staying back, and investing in your arena, is not such a horrible thing to do either.

Next year he's not finishing dead last...