BuzzerBeater Forums

heh, shows i always carry level 5's

thanks for that!

Oh, I agree it makes sense, mostly. I'd take issue with the $20M+ team value assumption, but my players don't have TPE within a few weeks of me training them anyway, and rarely have TPEs when I buy them (I'm one of those wierdos that insist on defense and side skills *gasp*), so I may not have a great grasp of what my team's really worth -- and this is my inaugural d.II season anyway.

The $20M figure came from a 10 player team with an average player value of $2M.

If you're going to 2-position train and lose, why not 6-man training? 48-ing a player isn't that hard, and you don't get messed up that often, especially if you don't actually care about winning.

There just wasn't enough data available for 3-position training (or 1-position, for that matter) when crunched the numbers. Not to mention some things, like RB and DR, can only be trained 2-position (or Team).

I wouldn't go basic on the doctor -- 5 week injuries can vaporate a LOT of trainee value. [...] But is saving 10-15k/week on the doctor worth the significantly higher risk of +5 injuries?

You could always sell an injured trainee and replace him, though you're right, there is a lot of loss there. I don't have a whole lot of faith in the doctor portion of the team staff. If anyone has any figures on whether my lvl 6 doc is any better than, say, a lvl 3, I'd love to see them. I keep the lvl 6 around for piece of mind.

I can say for certain that there's a big financial gap between even just II and III -- my player salaries are 30-odd percent higher than last season and I'm still clearing almost four times the typical weekly profit (salaries from ~180k last season in III to ~250k this season; typical weekly profit from ~40k to ~150k). Granted, I won't make a deep playoff run here, but if I were to burn the team and deliberately relegate, my gross receipts would probably be cut by 50% or more for each league level I dropped.

One of the things that got me thinking on this was mostly the attendance factor. Jelme and TUG are still selling seats while their teams suck phallus, and some of my data came from Postal last season (she'd lost something like 9 straight, had 3 consecutive walkovers in competitive games (one of those a TV game, iirc), and was still selling ~7k tickets per game). What I couldn't really factor into my numbers were things like STH, as I have no idea what type of STH loss could be expected while falling through divisions, how much a team of such tiny value would hurt the TV money for an entire league, what sort of merch revenue to expect, etc.

The other thing you wind up implicitly doing with that plan is playing a market game rather than a basketball manager game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people that thing the transfer market should be regulated to the point where day trading or carry trading is impossible, or greatly laments inflation/deflation/etc in the player market -- I just know that personally I don't come here to play the stock market. If I wanted to do that, I'd go over to Yahoo Finance or something. Each his own, I suppose, but it seems to me that the basic premise of this is that player transfer prices will remain flat or drop while you're banking cash. If player transfer prices move higher, then your banked capital is being eroded and you're not getting the returns of higher income from being in a higher division.

You're absolutely right here, and preaching to the choir a bit. However, if you're in a higher division paying $350k-$450k/week on player wages while making a profit, how much profit do you think could be made if you suddenly cut $300k+ in wages?

Even if I still think my idea could be done, I seriously doubt my ability to follow through with it; mostly because I like the winning part of this game more than I like the training part.

Well, come end of the next season to beginning of the one after, I'll be changing over my team a whole helluva lot. I can see 1 player surviving the purge. Will my team survive in Div II? I doubt it considering how long it'll take me to find the pieces I want. I'm going to be patient and make sure I bring in the players that fit the profile I want perfectly. This will surely cost me a lot of games.

And I will also be switching over to pure SF training. I plan on starting slow. As of now, I'm looking at buying 1 SF 18 yo, then buy another 1 season later, than a third one a season after that. There is 0 chance of surviving in Div II training up 3 18 yo trainees in ID/OD/whatever else, so I plan to stagger it a bit in a futile effort to survive. This will also allow me to buy players who are relatively young (trainable age still) at other positions and train them up. Big guys that lack a little D, guards that lack a little D. Also some Rebs and JS/HN/DR. It other words they won't have to necessarily be finished products, for the first season or 2 they'd get training half the season.

I considered buying a 20 yo, 19 yo, and a 18 yo SF trainee, but everytime I look for what I'd want, there is nada. So I'm going with the aforementioned route. And of course, I'm going to do my damnedest to stay American, home grown. Not sure I"ll be able to however.

This will most likely be the last bit of training I do considering the timeline I expect it to take in order to train up the SFs to the levels that I want. Many moons will shine before this is done, and knowing my past (taking into account HT), I'll be burnt and done. But it should be interesting, if not painful, if not fun.

So, in summation, enjoy my presence while you can because I don't expect to be around much longer than another season or 2. And things won't be looking up, so to speak. But at least it'll keep me entertained, can't say the same for anyone else ;)

Best of luck to you with this.

My plan was similar, though instead of SFs, I planned to train really well-rounded PFs, and after the second batch switch to PGs. The "burnt and done" notion occurred to me as well, that somewhere in the process I'd lose interest in playing BB at all, which kinda defeats the whole purpose. The only way I think I could keep myself interested would be to make the entire experiment public (i.e. posting the premise along with weekly updates in the forums), though I don't even know if that would help me remain interested.

your analysis is good but partly flawed. i originally thought like you, but you can't deny the game income is tempting, and keeping an arena semi-full depends upon some decent performances.

I touched on this in my reply to Azariah (check out Postal's season 11 attendance), but with the amount of play available in ticket pricing, I think you could keep asses in seats no matter how much you're losing, and tweak a bit here and there to optimize income.

Also, you (and Toonces, if I'm interpreting him correctly) are planning to try and remain at least middling teams once you drop to dIII, whereas my model would have no notion whatsoever of winning for a few seasons at minimum. The idea came from both watching you and Postal blow up your teams in successive seasons, combined with a lot of talk on the forums in the vein of "if you don't think you can win the league, don't spend any money on players," which-- interpreted to the extreme-- means 15 teams every season are wasting money. I just crunched the numbers to see what could happen if you were to turn the waste into pure profit.

the salaries are always a fixed 2% increase a week. so you look at carrying costs, and replacement costs, and the math isnt too too difficult from there in terms of ok prices to upgrade at etc etc

Incorrect.

Salary increases by week:
Level 2 - 1.25%
Level 3 - 1.5%
Level 4 - 1.75%
Level 5 - 2%
Level 6 - 2.25%
Level 7 - 2.5%

Oooh, I hadn't seen that before. Thanks.

As far as doctors go, I can only go by personal experience.

Maybe it's luck/chance, or not. But when I had a level 2 doctor, I got 1, perhaps 2 injuries a season. I do believe that I had 3 in one of my previous seasons. Currently I have a level 3 doctor, and haven't had a injury so far this season. I can't be sure, but I think that I got a level 3 doctor about half way through last season, and may have only had one injury to a backup player, and that was for maybe 1 week.

You could always sell an injured trainee and replace him, though you're right, there is a lot of loss there. I don't have a whole lot of faith in the doctor portion of the team staff. If anyone has any figures on whether my lvl 6 doc is any better than, say, a lvl 3, I'd love to see them. I keep the lvl 6 around for piece of mind.

Well, as I recall from an IRC or forum post by a BB... in the old doctor system, the higher the doctor level, the more likely a "5 week injury" got washed out to something shorter. I don't expect they changed that in the new system. But basically, if you go naked on the doctor, a lot of the +1 and +2 injuries you get with your high level doctor could (but may not necessarily) turn into +3 or +4 or +5 injuries.

What I couldn't really factor into my numbers were things like STH, as I have no idea what type of STH loss could be expected while falling through divisions, how much a team of such tiny value would hurt the TV money for an entire league, what sort of merch revenue to expect, etc.

There were several newly demoted Italy II teams bitching in Globals about losing half of their STHs at the beginning of this season, and losing over half of their gross income from the relegation.

You could always sell an injured trainee and replace him, though you're right, there is a lot of loss there. I don't have a whole lot of faith in the doctor portion of the team staff. If anyone has any figures on whether my lvl 6 doc is any better than, say, a lvl 3, I'd love to see them. I keep the lvl 6 around for piece of mind.

Well, as I recall from an IRC or forum post by a BB... in the old doctor system, the higher the doctor level, the more likely a "5 week injury" got washed out to something shorter. I don't expect they changed that in the new system. But basically, if you go naked on the doctor, a lot of the +1 and +2 injuries you get with your high level doctor could (but may not necessarily) turn into +3 or +4 or +5 injuries.

See? Nobody is really sure whether doctors are any good or not. Even the manual is pretty vague on the subject.

What I couldn't really factor into my numbers were things like STH, as I have no idea what type of STH loss could be expected while falling through divisions, how much a team of such tiny value would hurt the TV money for an entire league, what sort of merch revenue to expect, etc.

There were several newly demoted Italy II teams bitching in Globals about losing half of their STHs at the beginning of this season, and losing over half of their gross income from the relegation.

It would be awesome if you could share a link to that...

If you're going to 2-position train and lose, why not 6-man training? 48-ing a player isn't that hard, and you don't get messed up that often, especially if you don't actually care about winning.



There just wasn't enough data available for 3-position training (or 1-position, for that matter) when crunched the numbers. Not to mention some things, like RB and DR, can only be trained 2-position (or Team).

3 games a week x 2 positions = 6 man training....

Just going to copy and paste a forum posting that i made several months ago. Hope this helps...T
From: Pappy ODaniel
In: BB Global (English)
Date: 11/12/2009 09:29
Re: "Doctors are useless:" From what we have learned in the past, this statement is not totally true. Supposedly every injury has a certain grade level from say, 1 to 10, 1 being the lightest and 10 being the most severe. Every grade-1 injury allows the player to return by the next game, while every level 10 will mean time off regardless of the skill level of the doctor. Time off for injuries between those two grades will depend on the doctor's skill level. For example, a grade-3 injury might mean a one-week layoff with a level-1 doctor, but no time off for a level-4 one. Likewise, a grade-8 injury would mean a 3-week layoff for a level-1 doctor, but only a 1-week for a level-5 (these examples are only estimations)..I hope that this helps clear up some confusion about the skill levels of doctors...

If you're going to 2-position train and lose, why not 6-man training? 48-ing a player isn't that hard, and you don't get messed up that often, especially if you don't actually care about winning.



There just wasn't enough data available for 3-position training (or 1-position, for that matter) when crunched the numbers. Not to mention some things, like RB and DR, can only be trained 2-position (or Team).

3 games a week x 2 positions = 6 man training....

Ah. Doh. Well the reason I focus on four is because I can't recall ever pulling off six guys at 48 minutes, ever. Someone gets in foul trouble or I get ahead by forty points or something. I'm probably doing something wrong.