BuzzerBeater Forums

You need strong players and a strong roster and however you loose!

Reality check.
Well, this is a multiplayer game, so you will always be playing against other managers. That means, unless you are a superior to your opponents you should lose about 50% of the time. After all you are competing against 15 other teams for that promotion every season, making a division in less than 7,5 seasons makes you better than the average.

Now, there are any ways to be superior, and it is a long way to every one of the. Having a bigger arena, better calibrated arena prices, better salary-efficient players, better at scouting and guessing your opponents tactics and weaknesses, etc.. In any way, it is hard to have the upper ahand on all of these at the same time. (to the point->) Playing in a small country as the only dominant force could give you the power on all of these, but that would be the equivalent of poking an ant hill with a stick. Does make you feel like a man? Didn't think so..

What I percieve from most of this thread is that some big countries teams are dissatisfied with not having the possibility to play bot teams and buy better players than their opposition, non? The first part there is little to do about, the second is a neccessity to manage the steep level of opposition a new manager in a small country meets. As Superfly mentioned you will, as a new manager in a small country, meet a massive resistance and get pounded every game, taking the fun out of it and prevent you from committing to the game. Imagine that once you start a team in Spain you had one "easy" season, then were pitted in the current level of ACCB. That is the reality for an underdog small country team. Yes, they have bigger spending power in the beginning, but much less than their rivals, whereas a big country team meets more equal competition. Now, who needs it the most?

What I percieve from most of this thread is that some big countries teams are dissatisfied with not having the possibility to play bot teams and buy better players than their opposition, non?

I'll try to make it clear the reasons of my dissatisfaction: part of the fun in playing this game comes from winning in a challenging environment (note - challenging, not impossible), part comes from having the feeling to be building something, improving something, creating a 'story'. Right now the structure of the game (it is, as you, say, structurally hard because of the single promotion and 4 demotions in a division) and the economical scenario make it extremely hard for me to do either of these things.

I train players, of course, but everybody does that and they age (and please don't talk about the draft, it would be an insult), so I'm not getting more competitive, I'm not really improving so much. I simply cannot afford players able to improve my team, even by selling one of my key players I'd be (hopefully) able to buy just a marginally better one, due to players' costs and to the excessive amount of money that is still out there... where does it come from? Not from my division. Not from III divisions in Italy (I've been there, I saw the economy)... and by reading the thread I have a few hints on where it is generated. Anyway, the situation from my vantage point seems frozen, immobile, and impossible to change... and not fun. Nothing personal... it just an opinion.

Small country teams have disandvantage in the BB because the cup is over pretty early, which robs then a n extra tie and they had lower income through merchandise and tv - overall i think the chanches are pretty equal because a BBB team don't make more money then another(or at least those who are competing for a good result there)

Thats not true at all.
In Nippon they are in semis of the Cup. They have rounds enough to play with full enthusiasm all the rounds.
Nigeria and some other small countries are only affected for the semis and the finals, which is unfair if we compare them with Nippon, who has 2 more rounds of domestic cup. (having similar users).

Nippon has a tournament for 256 teams, having only 34 active teams.
Nigeria has a tournament for 64 teams, having only 28 active teams.

In fact, I can assure you that small countries contenders have more enthusiasm than me today : )

If you want my sincere opinion, I wont fight for the B3 any more. I wont WO, because I have a high respect for this game, but I wont care for the B3 enthusiasm or line-ups any more, so I suppose that I wont advance more than 1-2 rounds next years. My fight are domestic cup and domestic league, and I will give all I have to succeed in both.
As someone stated before, little comunity top teams are playing a different game. And I wont destroy my game-shapes or give league matches to my enemies like this one, (17957436), just to try a competition where the HCA is decisive and where little country teams have full advantages.
Thats all.

Last edited by LeYeNdiNhA at 1/30/2010 8:23:26 AM

Well, only my point of view.
The problem we percieve as a part of a big communitty is not the great competicion.
The problem is that we are playing with very narrow economic margins. I need to be connected at the morning, afternoon, evening to get in the TL the players / staff membres I need at a fair price because there are teams in some countries that are receiving more money than they need to make his job and are adulterating the prices. So I need to sacrifize a lot of hours to be economically competent. I was connected january 1 at 1 am to hire a staff member. I am sacrifizing a lot of time because the income - expense formula in the whole BB world is not correct and some teams are receaving more money than necessary.
If the economy of the teams of some countries would be as narrow as ours is, they would not be able to make the thing I say and all of us would live better.
The problem is that all of us use the same TL but some of us have lots of money to spend and other do not have nothing.
And you can say: but all of you are in the same economical situacion. OK, but I don´t want to be in a better economical situation than my league partners. I want to be in a better economical situacion in general.

Example (very simple to appreciate things in perspective):
There are only two countries in BB.
One of them has 2 teams. Every team has an income of 10. But his expenses are 8 so every team has a profit of 2.
The other country has another 2 teams. Every team has an income of 10. But his expenses are 6. Every team has a profit of 4.
The BB administrators can look at it at say: "hey, the income in the system is correct". All of them are getting 10. It´s balanced. We don´t need to do anything. This is not true. The teams of the first country are getting rapped in the TL.

Another example:
There are only two countries in BB.
One of them has 2 teams. Every team has an income of 11. But his expenses are 8 so every team has a profit of 3.
The other country has another 2 teams. Every team has an income of 9. But his expenses are 6. Every team has a profit of 3.

This is balanced. The money in the whole BB system is the same. But a differente distribution. This is what we ask for. We don´t want to be a easier path. We want to be trheated correctly, as the other countries managers are.
I dont want to be connected the january 1 at 1 am to hire an staff member as I were. I dont want to be more competitive than other in my league. I want that 1 hour that I dedicate to the game is valued as 1 hour dedicated to the for other countries peaple. Other countries peaple receive a lot of money without the job we need to do. And this is not fair from our point of view. People is tired of many and many ours taking care of the team when in other countries you don´t need the same effort to be as competitive as here.

Conclusion:
Do not want to play against bots. Simply want that is recognised that the tiem we spend in the game has the same value that the time other people spend in the game. Because right now we feel that in spain for example you need to use too many ours for notihng.
A new formula for the income that would take into account the realitty of every country/team as Josef Ka has expressed for example could be a beginning.

And that's all somehow the fault of users in small countries? Seriously...

edit: And yes, the whole point of the game is making plans for several seasons ahead. It's not an arcade, and it's not intended to provide instant gratification.


Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/30/2010 9:54:44 AM

You're taking this personally while we're talking about rules and management of the game processes.

You're basically saying that I'm blaming you, and players from small countries, which is simply false. I'm talking about game mechanisms, not about people.

And that's all somehow the fault of users in small countries? Seriously...

It's not a fault but it's a problem of balance between reality very different. All must compete on equal terms in the B3 and the market (in same level of serie of different countries) and to do this we need to find something to rebalance the incomes according to the difficulty of the championships. Used as leverage by averaging the sum of the salaries of the series to determine the maximum turnout to the stadium of that serie might be a first move in what is a fair index of competitiveness of the series.
Alternatively you can implement a damper enthusiasm in attendance of the stadium is based on the reverse of the number of players in that nation.
Imagination does not lack but the will .... yes! When there is a good trader in Ghana will dominate everything we'll see if they will say the same!

All must compete on equal terms in the B3 and the market (in same level of serie of different countries)

You're at exactly the same terms as your immediate competition (the teams in the same level). I don't think the person that was complaining about division IV is exactly concerned about B3.

we need to find something to rebalance the incomes according to the difficulty of the championships

No, we don't. A champion from a small country with $200,000 in total weekly salaries from a small country is obviously weaker than the Italian champion who pays at least 2 or 3 times more. And the more the small country team catches up in team strength with the Italian, the less of a financial surplus he's going to run.

Alternatively you can implement a damper enthusiasm in attendance of the stadium is based on the reverse of the number of players in that nation.

Excellent, so that small-country teams can both be weak, and have no money to become better...

BB just implemented fixes in merchandising and TV revenue to somewhat adjust for country size and strength. I don't see anything else that will penalize teams just because they're in a small country.

Imagination does not lack but the will .... yes! When there is a good trader in Ghana will dominate everything we'll see if they will say the same!

Yeah, ok, we're all waiting for the Ghanaian apocalypse...

By the way, the situation in most online games is pretty similar: good players adapt to the game and win. The rest just want the game to get adapted to them.

You're taking this personally while we're talking about rules and management of the game processes.

You're basically saying that I'm blaming you, and players from small countries, which is simply false. I'm talking about game mechanisms, not about people.

This topic is about the advantage of teams in small countries, so I could only assume that you think implementing disadvantages for people in small countries will somehow help you.

In other news, game processes are exactly the same (or fairly similar) for teams that are in direct competition with each other -- that is, in the same division level of the same country. I don't want to be rude, but the fact you're having problems there is not a fault of the systemm.

(and yes, as I mentioned before, if you expect to be successful without a careful long-term plan, you're simply playing the wrong game)

Alternatively you can implement a damper enthusiasm in attendance of the stadium is based on the reverse of the number of players in that nation.

Excellent, so that small-country teams can both be weak, and have no money to become better...

BB just implemented fixes in merchandising and TV revenue to somewhat adjust for country size and strength. I don't see anything else that will penalize teams just because they're in a small country.

Fixes for country size is in my opinion completely wrong. Strength of division yes, but size absolutely no. If the competition and random salary of a division in a small country is as high as in a big country, the merchandise, tv-revenue, attendance should be the same for it to be fair. But it is not, alas preventing the salaries to become as high, so we can actually turn the title of this thread around and say that small countries is at a disadvantage to become great teams, preventing them to get the top notch players. Those teams are also the only ones competing with team out of their country, creating an unfair enviroment for small country teams in hard divisions. Yep, you heard me.

As time goes by the level of competition inevitable goes up in small countries as the country ages and the average age of teams goes up allowing them time to build their enterprises. As it is now, it is unfair for small countries because the cap indicates: less inhabitants equals less income, regardless of division strength and total salaries. I will write a letter suggesting to our king that we invade, say.. the Netherlands promptly, so we can have as good BB income as the biggest countries top divisions Now they are prevented to reach the same level. A calibration based heavily on the division strength would be most fair, with minor differences between divisions, mainly taken from TV-revenue and maximum arena prices.

Edit: to everyone, not just you, Kozlodoev.

Last edited by Svett Sleik (U21-Scout Norge) at 1/30/2010 12:18:05 PM

(and yes, as I mentioned before, if you expect to be successful without a careful long-term plan, you're simply playing the wrong game)

You are being rude and you are taking this personally: what you are saying is deliberately false or insulting.

1) I never said that managers in smaller countries are causing my dissatisfaction with game, while you said so;
2) I never said that I want to have a quick success, I just said that I like challenges but not 'missions impossible', but you certainly know me and my intentions much better than me;
3) you are now saying that we (because I'm not alone) want to create 'disadvantages' for managers in smaller countries, which is false: we want to understand if it's correct that as of this moment they have 'advantages';
4) as you know, the TL is global, so anyone of us is not only competing with other managers in the same country and in the same division, but also with other managers from other countries that maybe have a simpler access to economical resources and that, in this way, have an advantage in the markets and alter the common prices of players, but also trainers.