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Good point. Let´s take a real life approach:

Well, the point in real life is, that a well played 2-3 also more or less stops driving to the basket. Actually the 2-3 is REALLY meant for stopping penetration to the basket, isn´t it?

So ...

A realistic 2-3 setup requires:

- PF and SF having high OD
- C with high / solid SB
- Guards with high OD (but low ID)

And it should lead to ...

- opponent guards hitting a lower percentage of their midrange shots
- opponent Bigs getting less touches
- opponent offensive rebounding alot less effective, because your guys are always between their guys and the rim

and also

- opponent getting a bunch of open 3´s

Which of those points are achieved? Think again whether 2-3 works the way it "should", and if you use the players meant for 2-3.

On a side note:

If you think that through, the "best" way against a 3-2 would be guards cutting to the basket and with enough passing to find their fellow guard for the open three, as 3-2 should be quite vulnerable to cuts and quick drop outs after the defense is starting to move and switch.


Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 1/23/2012 4:50:17 PM

Good point. Let´s take a real life approach:

Well, the point in real life is, that a well played 2-3 also more or less stops driving to the basket. Actually the 2-3 is REALLY meant for stopping penetration to the basket, isn´t it?

So ...

A realistic 2-3 setup requires:

- PF and SF having high OD
- C with high / solid SB
- Guards with high OD (but low ID)

And it should lead to ...

- opponent guards hitting a lower percentage of their midrange shots
- opponent Bigs getting less touches
- opponent offensive rebounding alot less effective, because your guys are always between their guys and the rim

and also

- opponent getting a bunch of open 3´s

Which of those points are achieved? Think again whether 2-3 works the way it "should", and if you use the players meant for 2-3.

On a side note:

If you think that through, the "best" way against a 3-2 would be guards cutting to the basket and with enough passing to find their fellow guard for the open three, as 3-2 should be quite vulnerable to cuts and quick drop outs after the defense is starting to move and switch.

well that's is my point. if this would be true, then most of us simply don't have the right players to play zone and it means, that the problem isn't in game engine but in us and the way we want that zone to work...



Last edited by Tucis at 1/23/2012 5:54:30 PM

but there is also somth more I'd like to add..

theoreticly defensive rebounding is not increased. it's much harder to box out all attacking players, because defence is concentraiting on zone not on the players without ball.

it should be negative effect in all zone defences.. but it seems it is not..at least for. it means we have to keep in mind that it's really hard to make copletely correct algorithm for such complex process..

I disagree about the negative impact on Rebounding. Sure you might miss a rebound or two to some athletic slashing guy (especially if he´s following up his own miss) in a 2-3, but actually given that in a 2-3 zone you have three guys close to the basket who can work on the glass you should be able to control the boards rather good. At least the SF and the C should receive a certain boost over their m2m Rebounding. The PF maybe a little lower than in m2m, but that really depends on the offense scheme.

While in m2m you can drag a C out to the 3pt line, he will be where the rebound happens in 2-3 every single possession.

The SF should definately get the best rebounding ratings while playing 2-3. Next m2m, then the boxes, last probably 3-2. But it should (and probably does) depend on the offense schemes aswell. When the SF plays against a Motion team in m2m, he will most likely spend all of his time far from the basket, while playing 2-3 against a LI offense might place him within arm length of the boards.

In addition, I think the 1-3-1 isn´t working right when it comes to rebounding. The C should not receive a hit in rebounding playing that defense, as he is "really "parking" under the basket, while the PF is chasing guys up and down the baseline... but that´s just a side note.

Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 1/23/2012 6:25:05 PM

2-3 is rarely used in real life, in the NBA could help against Memphis (with Randolph on court) but not the 48 minutes, for example.

Now, 2-3 has to increase rebounding, and when I used it it had, but the outside scoring was so easy for the other team that I lost even with a huge advantage in rebs. 10 or 15 more and loosing!

Even though I use it rarely, I like it as an option.

but in real life also few team play in such limiting offensiv schemes like here, and 2-3 isn't so unpopular for short stretches in the game not only against memphis. Dallas used this zone quite often in the last PO for example, Syracuse is a good example on college level for it since they play it quite succesful as their main defence.

hehe..i didnt mean my team playin the zone..but checkin my games playin against a 23 u will see that my ex center and 300k monster fanesi didnt get that much the ball as he would get it against a man man..but like i said, its only my view..i like the 23 zone..for me that zone has as much advantages like disadvantages like every other zone that BB offers us :-)

you are right about the number of shots taken by the big men, 2-3 Zone decreases the number without touching the efficiency..
but i also remember you telling your shorties don't have much driving..
your main plan is always finding the big men i guess, that's why 2-3 Zone might be more successful against you comparing another Look Inside team with similar strength..
driving layups are very frequent in inside offense and most people use high DR guards to take the advantage..
this advantage is maximized against 2-3 Zone..

actually it's pointless to discuss the tactics as the developers has already jumped off of the ship but it's always a joy to criticize 2-3 Zone and Shot Blocking.. :)

thats right..my team had driving around 13 and passing PG 14,SG 11..but my guards have Inside Shot and Rebound..not the world but the cap to other BB world class guards is huge enough to have a decent shot percentage without JS/Range and high Driving :-))))


Last edited by WillFreeman at 1/24/2012 9:54:42 AM

short stretches

This is the key. m2m, even 3-2 may work the hole game. but 2-3 I've only seen it work when I play basket with friends, who are no Steve Kerr from the three point line and we always get the edge on rebs. ;)

2-3 still doesn't work? with much lower enthusiasm, with wore GS, ok combined with HCA - wola :D

(42361889)

then how the hell he maneged to win?