BuzzerBeater Forums

You don't understand what i'm saying. Go back and read through my proposal again.

On second thoughts, I'll highlight some key points for you:

5. The teams involved in the loan must agree terms under which the loaned player plays, ie. minutes per week, positions played, skills trained.

So you, the owner, get to decide what sort of thing happens to your player. Nobody is going to train a centre without outside skills as a guard when training them as a centre will earn them $250,000. So if you have a spare centre from the draft, you can get him trained in inside skills. But there's a catch, for both teams. And as for not knowing in advance what you'll be training from week to week....sheesh. Proper planning and preparation prevent poor performance. Good luck with your unplanned system!

6. The team making the loan pays a fee, eg. $250,000, to the team receiving the player in return for services rendered. This fee is held in trust for the duration of the loan and is payable when the loaned player returns to his original club if the playing terms have been met.

So let's say that your loaned centre doesn't get any playing time, or enough time, after you and the receiving team agreed that he would get at least48 minutes per week in a training position. He has not improved at all. Therefore, the agreed playing conditions have been breached and your money, held in trust, is returned to you.

If he does get trained, then you get a player who is improved at a set of skills decided in advance by you and the receiving team for a knockdown price of $250,000. I estimate that under a well-thought out regime, you could turn a centre with average IS, ID and RB into a centre with strong in those three skills. Bargain!

Ah, you say, what if the player is injured? Then the amount of money to be paid is reduced by the percentage of the season he has missed.

Now it seems your main concern for having a loan system is

That player might be the difference in them getting promoted or not.

It is for lower teams to get better players and help them with out paying their whole salary and you get your 18 year ols 2nd round pick aa chance to play and prove his worth to you before you decide to sell him

The system I proposed allows for this. Let's say that you don't want the player to be trained and don't want to pay the loan fee: the solution is simple: set the playing conditions to be something that cannot be fulfilled eg. a guard to be played as a centre. Your generous sense of philanthropy is fulfilled! You might have helped a poor little Div IV team to promote! And you lost no money! Awwww! Except here's the problem: this is where the system is ripe for abuse. Bummer.

To DemonHoosier: point taken. ksach's point is that teams receiving a loan player can't afford trainees. Hence the need, he believes, for a loan system.

Go drop down to division 4 where you cant afford good players on the transfer list and your not making any money.

Isn't that the whole point of having different divisions? That the best players are in the top divisions?

This will never happen - the cheating potential is too great.

Totally agree...

Steve

Yes the better players are in the top division that is obvious. But the top teams have bigger arenas make more money on merchandise and have more flexibility to work with. So you make a system to help the lower league teams that can benefit everyone. For all of you who disagree with system go start a new team in a lower league and see how easy it would be to get promoted now when you have so many active players in the game.

I do understand what you are saying. I don’t agree. The idea for sending players on loan is not for me only to benefit. As you are asking. If I send my center to them and they play an jump shot type of offense now because we made agreements he need s to restructure his training system so I can benefit with a player who is better and his players who don’t play the same position as mine dot improve. Also what if the players don’t improve as fast and he is training them that way. He trains rebounds as a team so the player goes up every 3 weeks instead of every 2 now he can’t match all the stipulations because of something in BB.

Then you will also having people loaning people for the money not to improve their team. Oh yeah that what we want to turn loaning players into a day trading system. You need to rethink your rules a bit buddy. There is a risk in loaning players and maybe the player does not improve as much as I wanted him to or do not in the categories I would have liked. But he improved with them when I would have barely gotten him into my rotation. So no matter how you look at it I get a better player back and he get a player to help him win.

Pointless. Just buy and sell, that's what the transfer system is for.

agreed... so many potential complications...

now if we had our own jnr team/feeder team in an international random reserve league we could train even more youngsters!!

Much better. Now we are debating the various merits of the different systems.

You have proposed what is in effect a system of charity between teams, whereby unwanted players get passed around in the hope that they will improve teams in lower leagues (an assumption which is pretty condescending for teams in lower leagues) and maybe get some training.

I have proposed a modified version of that system which allows for several things to occur:
1. For lower league teams to train a player for a higher level team and earn money they would otherwise not have, if they cannot obtain trainees of their own (a big concern of yours!);
2. For higher league teams to invest money in the training of that player, who they would otherwise be required to sell or fire (another concern of yours!), in order for that player to improve;
3. For higher league teams to lend players - non-trainees - to lower league teams as charity (that's all three of your bases covered!).

Loaning players cannot turn into a day-trading system, if three stipulations are followed:

1. A team may only loan 1 player per season
2. A team may only recruit 1 player on loan per season
4. A player can only be on loan for one season in his entire career. The minimum and maximum loan length is one season

This limits the availability of players for loan.

Other things which you are seemingly ignoring:

You need to rethink your rules a bit buddy. There is a risk in loaning players and maybe the player does not improve as much as I wanted him to or do not in the categories I would have liked.

Please compare your comment here to my comments:

5. The teams involved in the loan must agree terms under which the loaned player plays, ie. minutes per week, positions played, skills trained.
6. The team making the loan pays a fee, eg. $250,000, to the team receiving the player in return for services rendered. This fee is held in trust for the duration of the loan and is payable when the loaned player returns to his original club if the playing terms have been met.

I'll flesh this part out further for you.

In order to ensure that both teams play fair, the agreement is saved on the players page. Furthermore, each week the player's owner is sent a weekly report saying how many minutes he played, in which position he played and what skills the receiving team has trained, and how many positions are trained. These details are also saved on the Loan Agreement Form. Once the loan is concluded, the owner compares what the receiving team has done with the player with what was promised. If the receiving team is in breach of the loan conditions, they don't get paid. Of course, you might still not be happy and try to weasel out of paying the fee, but a system of arbitration could be set up (poor GMs!) to resolve such issues.

Then you will also having people loaning people for the money not to improve their team

Uh huh. Think again. Two points here:
- If I agree to train a player for you, it is guaranteed that I am going to be training other players in the same skills unless I am an idiot. Your player improves alongside my trainees. My team improves and I get money for training your player, and I get more money if you sell that player (point 7 of my proposal).
- If I agree to train one of your players for you, and then fail to do so, I get nothing and your player has not improved. Nobody benefits. But that's the risk you take. No improvement = no payment

Anyway, I hope that makes things clearer. I've enjoyed thinking about this system and wish you the best of luck this season!

Pointless. Just buy and sell, that's what the transfer system is for.

agreed... so many potential complications...

now if we had our own jnr team/feeder team in an international random reserve league we could train even more youngsters!!

Indeed. I don't think that any loan system will occur, because it is far far too easy to abuse, but I'm enjoying the challenge of the debate.

all the points are valid IF teams continue to be controlled by the users that brokered the loan agreement... if someone cheats and gets suspended or just becomes a bot its just going to get messy.

loaning players for non-competitive games only may work.. a try before you buy feature... play in scrimmages.. with a view to purchasing... this way you can try someone with certain skills to see how they improve your team ratings...

Well you have put time into your proposal and i will give you that. I have as well and i understand that nothing will work if you make it to complicated which you are trying to do. The idea is a good one in my opinion and can be arranged like the transfer list. The idea is to help lower division teams as well as the loaned players. That is why in real life you have youth teams and college and why some players are loaned out to other teams to get better. Now why would i pay $250,000 to train a player when i can buy one for the same price. People want to cut down on day trading. Train your players instead of buying them means you buy less players and the day traders get stuck with more players. The lower division teams gets a player who will help them for FREE. FREE do you understand that concept. A star player four a lower division team that will help him put fans in the seats and get a better record. This also helps them as well. Now my player improves and their team improves for the season. The player is on his roster so he can do what he would like and i need to trust the manager i am loaning the player to that he wont screw me over. It is that simple.

Lets not over complicate things.

For the last time (since you don't seem to understand):

Now why would i pay $250,000 to train a player when i can buy one for the same price.

The team who own the player pay the fee to have a player trained for them. The team who receive the loan player and train the player receive $250,000 for doing so. I thought the entire basis for your proposal was that lower-league teams cannot afford trainees, yet you are unable to understand a system which rewards teams for taking on trainees?

The lower division teams gets a player who will help them for FREE. FREE do you understand that concept.

Better than you understand my proposal, it seems. The team who receive the loan player DO NOT PAY ANYTHING for doing so. Instead they get paid.

Now my player improves and their team improves for the season. The player is on his roster so he can do what he would like and i need to trust the manager i am loaning the player to that he wont screw me over.

To guarantee this, the two teams agree on how the loan player will be trained. Then the fee is deducted from the owning team's finances and set aside for the duration of the loan. At the end of the loan period, if BOTH teams agree that the terms have been met, then the fee is paid out to the receiving team. If both teams agree that the terms were not met, the fee is returned to the owning team. If they disagree, then an arbitrator decides the case.

Now my player improves and their team improves for the season.

Your condescending attitude to teams less fortunate than yours is showing through. By your system, there is no incentive for teams to train players they take on loan. Through mine, there is. Secondly, you are assuming (with no factual basis) that these teams will be improved by taking on a scrub from your squad.

That is why in real life you have youth teams and college and why some players are loaned out to other teams to get better.

This game is not real-life. The players in the draft in division II are NOT BETTER than the players available in the draft in Division IV. To use the comparison with real life as a basis for a player loan system in this game is idiotic.

Argh, enough. Your irrational tendencies, misplaced sense of righteousness and inability to comprehend my proposal are making me dizzy. From now on, you can discuss this topic on your own. Bye!