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Lakers staff will do thier job for a lakers team -take the righr in game calls, know how to handle the press, etc.

Higher division teams that holds low level staff needs to suffer from that as much as a Lakers team will suffer from having a school trainer/coach, PR or a DR.

so they use it since they need it more, and bring in more money back. So it is even like here.

And about coaches, good college coaches are often better paid then NBA coaches, the best paid is afaik even a college one with 7.5 mio each year while nba coaches sometimes get little more then 1.

Lakers staff will do thier job for a lakers team -take the righr in game calls, know how to handle the press, etc.

Higher division teams that holds low level staff needs to suffer from that as much as a Lakers team will suffer from having a school trainer/coach, PR or a DR.

The counter to that argument is that a school level team has no chance to ever find itself in the NBA. It has no chance to keep its players or purchase new ones or make significant income. As far as basketball is concerned, it is exclusively a place where young talents are trained and if any of their players appear to have a chance to play professionally, the NBA or other leagues sign them. The more you base the game balance on "realism" versus the principles of actually providing a balanced game environment, the worse it will be - unless of course you want to create a game where there are less than 100 "professional" teams who are profitable and always in the top division, and everyone else just exists to create more raw material for them.

Have you considered how this affects teams in micronations who start in the top level? Expecting them to field level 7 staff when they should be building their infrastructure is patently absurd. Have you considered that this will be likely to lead to even more tanking? If teams in the top level often don't want to spend what it takes to compete in the regular season now, why would they if they must then include another $200k/week in staff expenses? If you make the goal of getting to the top league unappealing enough, why would people bother continuing to try to do so?

Excellent post.

And once again, removing three point shots option will work "well" for this game just as much.

Basketball rule are basketball rule. I must say that there's still a difference, such as 6th foul out as they do in the NBA unlike 5th foul such in Europe. That's the rule implied in BB and that's it.

In regard to you suggestion I feel most of your suggestions are not in order to make the game more like real life (Which is not a good idea everytime) - but it's real purpose is to make 1st div teams weaker.

We all understand that and as a 1st div manager there's nothing I can say that will sound objective.

I will say that currently trainer is only in charge of training and not game decisions. Letting trainer level effect GS is a good idea even though I think doctor is the better position for that, specially with "Massage" special ability. (Special ability are not related to staff level, maybe that should be re-think)

Adding a coach to a staff member is a bad suggestion as I see it as games should be determined by teams players, GS, and other elements but most importantly by the user. you should decide your tactic and other elements... not a virtual coach.

And once again, removing three point shots option will work "well" for this game just as much.

Basketball rule are basketball rule. I must say that there's still a difference, such as 6th foul out as they do in the NBA unlike 5th foul such in Europe. That's the rule implied in BB and that's it.

It is just going around the bush.
Normal market behavior is normal market behavior.
Paying more for the TV contract in lower division is as ridiculous as defining the same impact of the coach / trainer on two different divisions.

In regard to you suggestion I feel most of your suggestions are not in order to make the game more like real life (Which is not a good idea everytime) - but it's real purpose is to make 1st div teams weaker.

This ridiculous claim was written about Div 1-3 when I was promoted to Div-3, and about Div 1-2 up until now.
What will you all claim when I'll get to the first division and claim the same things?
The fact that this game has competitiveness issues was proven by me by examples multiple times, and the 45K users and going down is an "on-filed" fact due to that.
As the time pass-by, the non-reasonable affect of "when one joined the game" for defining is strength makes this game worse for new-comers, and hence they leave faster.
Hence, the numbers (of users) are drastically decline.

I will say that currently trainer is only in charge of training and not game decisions.

As already stated - do a "dramatic" change and call him coach instead, and update the decisions accordingly.
Again, this is a try-out for going "around the bush".

Letting trainer level effect GS is a good idea even though I think doctor is the better position for that, specially with "Massage" special ability. (Special ability are not related to staff level, maybe that should be re-think)

The fact that it is one dimensional now (only special ability affect exists), does not mean that it is not more logical to have it more complex and real.

Adding a coach to a staff member is a bad suggestion as I see it as games should be determined by teams players, GS, and other elements but most importantly by the user. you should decide your tactic and other elements... not a virtual coach.

Do you define what to do in each offence play? Do you define exactly the substitution strategy (not who is going for whom, but do you define that when X is substituted Y will stay in court? etc.)? No you don't.
Does it reasonable that the offensive-flow will be affected not just by "the coach at the field" (AKA the PG) but also by the one that is on the line? Surely it is.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 8/14/2012 9:46:11 AM

The fact that this game has competitiveness issues was proven by me by examples multiple times, and the 45K users and going down is an "on-filed" fact due to that.

You've proven that you believe the game has competitive issues. But even if we were to accept that as truth (so we don't have to have that argument again), you've demonstrated no link whatsoever to said issues and the decline in users. Just because two things happen doesn't mean that one necessarily causes the other, and in fact, I would wager that the number of people who leave the game over frustration about your "competitive issues" is less than 10% of the people who leave altogether.

It is just going around the bush.
Normal market behavior is normal market behavior.
Paying more for the TV contract in lower division is as ridiculous as defining the same impact of the coach / trainer on two different divisions.

Normal market behavior doesn't stop - we can also have currency changes between ILS and USD - paying for that. we can also have paying for agent fees. We can also have loans. We can also have negotiations about players salary, payment for car / apartment / paying bonus per champ or cup and much more. This is a virtual game, I know you hate it. It has room for improvement but not all improvements are due to making the market more real. BB economic is something BB should and do monitor. each decision might effect the economic system and it must be carefully evaluated.

This ridiculous claim was written about Div 1-3 when I was promoted to Div-3, and about Div 1-2 up until now.
What will you all claim when I'll get to the first division and claim the same things?
The fact that this game has competitiveness issues was proven by me by examples multiple times, and the 45K users and going down is an "on-filed" fact due to that.
As the time pass-by, the non-reasonable affect of "when one joined the game" for defining is strength makes this game worse for new-comers, and hence they leave faster.
Hence, the numbers (of users) are drastically decline.

I really hope you'll do well in this game, nothing personal. I guess you'll continue with the same claims cause that's who you are. but it doesn't make my claim ridiculous as you said. I didn't say you are saying what you say cause you are in a lower div, I just said most of you suggestion are against higher div teams.

In additional I must add that you need to stop telling everyone their claims are ridiculous / stupid / "I am always right" / "This is a fact"
No one likes it - it's not making you smarter and if I without me checking the numbers it only makes you one of the higher ranks users that opened threads and got it closed.

Do you define what to do in each offence play? Do you define exactly the substitution strategy (not who is going for whom, but do you define that when X is substituted Y will stay in court? etc.)? No you don't.
Does it reasonable that the offensive-flow will be affected not just by "the coach at the field" (AKA the PG) but also by the one that is on the line? Surely it is.

That still doesn't convince me to add another staff member or to have someone in charge of coaching. it's just your arguments comparing this game to real life....

As this is not a thread about the competitiveness proven issue, I will not dive into that and repeat the same arguments showing that some BB-nations like France, Germany, Italy and Spain contains close to zero real users who joined later than season-4.
I will also not do that, as it was never answered but just given some not related excuses that does not explain why those 25% of BB-community BB-nations showing this phenomenon.

the usual talking points

As we're not discussing your flawed "research" I don't feel the need to repeat your assertions, even include them in your quote, or to bother to refute them again.

So, again:

The fact that this game has competitiveness issues was proven by me by examples multiple times, and the 45K users and going down is an "on-filed" fact due to that.

Just because two things happen doesn't mean that one caused the other. Even putting aside the issues in the first part of your statement, though, there's a problem. Since you are stating that the user base is going down is "due to" the "issues" you "researched" as a fact, I assume you have some way of demonstrably proving a cause and effect relationship.

Or, more likely, you don't and you'll use this as another opportunity to discuss your pet issue and decline to supply any proof of causation yet again.

You are dragging me into that and out of the topic of this thread with no reason...
But as you wrote and kindly asked, I will explain the connection.

As the times go by, the assets are pilling more and more, and hence it becomes harder and harder for newbies to be competitive in the game.
Hence, the numbers of those who leaves grows. They are leaving faster.

I believe that the rate of joiners did not changed significantly. But I cannot prove that.

And now please return to the topic on this thread.