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226711.24 in reply to 226711.23
Date: 9/10/2012 7:24:48 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
455455
9-11 SB on my Bigs is not so low, or you think it should be much more for stop the LI?


It's not low for the current school of thought, but I'm willing to bet that it's lower than the IS, IS and RB on every one of your bigs?

So how would you expect your 9-11 SB to stop the 17-20 IS of your opponents when you play 2-3 zone? I'm guessing thats the problem that the BB's have identified that has been completely ignored by the users for the past 21 seasons.


This Post:
00
226711.25 in reply to 226711.24
Date: 9/10/2012 7:30:15 PM
Spartan 300
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
52555255
Second Team:
Spartan Kids
So how would you expect your 9-11 SB to stop the 17-20 IS of your opponents when you play 2-3 zone?

Hmm I expect that my 19-20 ID stop the 17-20 IS of my opponent.

So now is m2m better function then 2-3 vs LI... Make the 2-3 zone stronger, that's what they need to do.

This is where we hold them!
This Post:
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226711.27 in reply to 226711.23
Date: 9/10/2012 7:36:08 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
914914
9-11 is really low. You can compare it to 9-11 on JS for guard or PS for playmakers. Especially that SB level is too low if those players are playing againts IS over 15. The problem is that nobody even think about reducing IS in their players, because it's well-known that's so important. What if SB is even more important than IS? If we take a look at guards we can see that defense is cheaper than attack. That's we can see players with OD 18+ in NTs and B3 and they stop high JS. With SB could be the same thing. SB 18+ may stop high IS. Defence is cheaper than attack, but... nobody trains it :)

This Post:
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226711.28 in reply to 226711.19
Date: 9/10/2012 7:37:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
455455
The SB has not so important role like IS, ID, RB, or do you think in another way?



This is getting a little frustrating. I've already stated that my thought process is exactly like yours. I play LI and I look for players that fit that mold including those with low SB myself.

I'm only trying to relay what the BB's have stated would fix SB and the 2-3 zone. And the point I've tried to make previously is that the theory is extremely difficult to even test out because almost every big man on the market is built to thrive in the LI offense and has low SB. I can't even tell you if it will actually work, I'm just saying what the BB's have said.

I already said this before, I would rather see the BB's adjust both the LI offense and the 2-3 zone. It would improve the game.

This Post:
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226711.29 in reply to 226711.24
Date: 9/10/2012 7:38:30 PM
Headless Thompson Gunners
Naismith
Overall Posts Rated:
708708
Second Team:
Canada Purple Haze BC
I got you Beener
they have already said that SB is needed to stop LI
but the earlier argument was that:
"Well, I have ID and play 2-3"
Hello!
Not enough, you need SB too!

The other argument is that:
Training SB pushes salary and caps player quicker.
However...skill pop effects from training website for C:
SB is roughly half the salary pop and the same for points leading to capping purposes.

This Post:
00
226711.30 in reply to 226711.26
Date: 9/10/2012 7:43:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
455455
Except, they haven't been saying this "recently" but more like 8 seasons ago. And 8 seasons ago people were saying the same thing you are saying now. And in the meantime almost every meaningful trophy has been won by a LI team.

Players with 15-17 sb exist as do big men with 10 OD and their owners haven't exactly been thriving.


I'm not saying that you're wrong, you're probably right. But I went through the waiver wire and there wasn't a single high salaried player with higher SB than IS. And in almost every case the SB was several levels lower.

So as I asked before, how can one expect a 9-11 SB to stop a 17-20 IS? If if SB is 15 (which is rare from what I see on the wire) it's still trying to stop IS that is usually still higher. And what if you only have 1 of those high SB players on your back line going against a roster full of high IS players? So I'm not convinced that an adjustment has actually been made in the past 8 seasons. The wire is still full of unbalanced bigs with very low SB.

I'm not taking sides on this argument, I just think that it's worth discussing. One more thing, there was a 'ask the BB's' thread in the forums during either season 19 or 20 and the SB vs LI offense was mentioned by the BB's again. I wasn't around 8 seasons ago so this was the first time it was brought to my attention.

Last edited by Beener not Beanerz at 9/10/2012 7:47:38 PM

This Post:
00
226711.31 in reply to 226711.27
Date: 9/10/2012 7:45:58 PM
Spartan 300
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
52555255
Second Team:
Spartan Kids
Thinking like that bring you to the III League You compare JS and SB and etc..

IS play vs ID, and you think IS play vs SB? Wtf

SB give your player chance to Block a shoot, not to stop the opponent during the game and playing better defense.

Defence is cheaper than attack, but... nobody trains it

We have defense high but they don't stop the LI even you play 2-3.

This is where we hold them!
This Post:
11
226711.32 in reply to 226711.31
Date: 9/10/2012 7:55:57 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
914914
Thinking like that bring you to the III League :)

It's kinda unfair attacking like this :)

There is no doubt shot blocking is defensive skill. So yes, IS is playing against SB and ID. SB is not only effective block, but also preventing from scoring a basket. It was even said by BBs (http://www.buzzerbeater.com/community/forum/read.aspx?thread=208622&m=116 - SREZ question)

Defence is cheaper than attack, but... nobody trains it :)

We have defense high but they don't stop the LI even you play 2-3.
All I can say, maybe it is still too low and it means your high defense is not as high as it should be?:)

Last edited by Pewu at 9/10/2012 7:56:50 PM

This Post:
00
226711.33 in reply to 226711.32
Date: 9/10/2012 8:00:18 PM
Spartan 300
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
52555255
Second Team:
Spartan Kids
Its not attacking my friend, you can't compare IS and SB like primary skills on Outside and Inside players

Ofc SB is a deff skill who help your player to block a shoot, not to play better defense.

I don't think 19 and 20 ID on my Bigs is too low.

This is where we hold them!
This Post:
00
226711.34 in reply to 226711.33
Date: 9/10/2012 8:15:06 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
914914
I think we misunderstand each other. In simple words:

Inside defense (as defense rating) = Inside defence + shot blocking.

One skills means nothing without second, that's the reason why Centers put ball into basket at FG% over 55%. It's the reason why LI works and IS is so popular skill trained. I didn't said your ID skill is low, but sum of SB and ID is too low comparing to high IS.

Last edited by Pewu at 9/10/2012 8:15:49 PM

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