BuzzerBeater Forums

Anyone want this thread deplaced to the Bugs forum ?

No, but just get over with it. Your censorship is pathetic.

Censorship ?

I asked if someone wanted this to be deplaced in the Bugs forum since some seem to think this is a Bug. Lemonshine just opened a thread on the Bugs forum about it also.

You are just being agressive for the sake of it. Enjoy.

Who deleted my post? I doubt it disappeared by itself. I think I should nominate you for the annual Foto-Award.

@GMs

It seems to me like your job here gets harder and harder every week. I would not be able to stay calm as you do.

Many of us appreciate your work, but remain the silent majority.

Just letting you know.

Regards,

Pete

If you're tired, you don't run, but the coach defying an express order from the management is another issue altogether and warrants sacking. This game is an hybrid but either we accept the coach does what he wants (without being told so) or he has to follow orders set by his general manager. BBs need to be coherent, they can't say, coach does what he wants (without being told so) option: BUG, we don't want it; coach does what he wants (despite specific different orders): OK, all working as intended, we want it. And more to the point you like to leave the coach freedom (ie. you like blanks and you like the fact that the coach subs out players NOT in the depth chart) don't call it "strictly", maybe call it "vaguely" or "tentatively" follow the depth chart.

Please note that this is mostly a devil's advocate response, as I again think that the whole substitution logic needs to be reworked. I think in this scenario there's the counter-argument that having the same player listed as all three positions on the depth chart could be considered functionally as an "incomplete" depth chart, and so while the coach may say that for any position you give him a starter and backup for, he'll use only those players, by not giving him any leeway at some point if he feels a change is required (which of course has a much higher threshold than a normal sub would), he's got to go off the board.

Marin and Charles and Forrest before him were all forthright that the other substitution options *are* bugged.

Yet Marin fixed blanks tens of seasons after the problem first emerged, because we don't want the coach to decide the substitution pattern...explain to me how double standards work. Also, since when talking about the other tactics means anything about this one? Have they clearly stated anywhere that SFDC is NOT bugged? If they did, have they explained why it is described in a different way in the Game Manual? We need links.

A smattering of links.
(267786.4)
(264873.10)
(261610.4)
(219327.6)
(161567.3)
(26712.251)

As to why it says what it says in the manual, further down it also says:

Your in-game coach will try his hardest to win; in order to optimize your training minutes, you can use the Strictly Follow Depth Chart tactic to overrule some of the coach's substitution decisions.

(The bold is my emphasis, and there's some text italicized in the manual that I'm not going to bother decorating to stand out).

So, yes, there's inconsistency there.

In any case, since it looks like this is also up in the Bugs forum now I presume there's no need to go round and round on this. I don't think the substitution options are at all ideal, nor are most of them even working. I do think, however, that no matter what your opinion is on the wisdom of the SFDC logic, and I'm sure I'm more in agreement with you on than otherwise, I don't think it's accurate to call it the logic itself a bug. The inconsistencies in the manual, sure. Nice catch.

So ok according to Marin that's no bug. Then my problem is that the game manual says one thing, Marin/others say you shouldn't be able to get 48 minutes by design and we're supposed to take both at face value.

Easiest fix: amend the Game Manual and rename Strictly into something else, I will post in Suggestions for this. Then people will still complain and demand a change, but at least we'll all be on the same page and there will be no confusion.

However, I think this will not happen because it equals admitting that:
a) sub patterns (all of them, including SFDC) are broken
b) there is absolutely no option to force the coach to do what the manager wants (and Blanks were allegedly fixed to push managers towards a more hands on approach and force them to control the team more closely)

Edit: I didn't add the second paragraph in the Game Manual in my previous post, but it should be amended too, as it seems quite evident that it gives the false impression that: 1) you need 48 minutes for training; 2) SFDC is the way to go to "optimize" your minutes. How is that not misleading? If I was reading that for the first time, I'd assume that SFDC will allow you to get 48 minutes and will also prevent the coach from starting subs or playing them more minutes than the starters (as it happens with Coach Pick from Depth Chart).

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/30/2015 12:14:59 PM

Almost every time I've been able to get 48 by making that player the starter/backup/reserve, leaving all other reserve spots blank, and making any potential reserve players inactive (in other words, only have 9 players dressed out in the "Selected Roster"). There was one game where this still didn't work, and in the last minute a different position's backup subbed in for no apparent reason - and I guess this is the "bug." Otherwise this has been about 99% reliable. (But it's still not "strictly" following the depth chart.)

I guess this is the "bug."

You haven't read BB-Marin's quotes that Hrudey provided. Everything is working as intended for Strictly, everything is not working as intended for the other 3 options, everything was not working as intended for blanks, but now it is! The only problem is that the description in the Game Manual is bonkers and explicitly invites people to select Strictly as the reliable way to manage minutes...go figure.

Edit: I didn't add the second paragraph in the Game Manual in my previous post, but it should be amended too, as it seems quite evident that it gives the false impression that: 1) you need 48 minutes for training; 2) SFDC is the way to go to "optimize" your minutes. How is that not misleading? If I was reading that for the first time, I'd assume that SFDC will allow you to get 48 minutes and will also prevent the coach from starting subs or playing them more minutes than the starters (as it happens with Coach Pick from Depth Chart).

Except that "optimizing" does not equate to a guarantee of 48 minutes, just that the SFDC option will give you the best result of the available options (with all other factors being equal, at least; you'll likely be more likely to get a trainee 48 minutes on a CPFDC with only five players dressed than you would with a SFDC in a blowout win with 12 players dressed).

That's also why they say that it gives managers "better control of their training minutes each week" than "gives them control". You can be reasonably assured of a general minute split depending on the game conditions, more so than with other lineup types. The fact that it's still well beyond your control overall, of course, is something that could definitely be improved - though I more frequently lament not being able to get players with respectable+ stamina under 44 minutes in a slow offense than losing a few minutes here or there.

Almost every time I've been able to get 48 by making that player the starter/backup/reserve, leaving all other reserve spots blank, and making any potential reserve players inactive (in other words, only have 9 players dressed out in the "Selected Roster"). There was one game where this still didn't work, and in the last minute a different position's backup subbed in for no apparent reason - and I guess this is the "bug." Otherwise this has been about 99% reliable. (But it's still not "strictly" following the depth chart.)

It's probably better to have only 8, since if your game goes into garbage time on a play that sends one of the non-trainee starters to the line, his backup will come in to replace the trainee. It also occasionally happens late in close games in terms of trying to make sure the best FT lineup is on the court or maybe to rebound missed FTs, and once in a while for players with poor enough stamina. And it's always the trainee you least want to miss minutes that has it happen to them in a given week.