BuzzerBeater Forums

@BB's

Recently I've read a few times that the new BB's, BB-Patrick and BB-Edju, have the job to get more people to the game. While that might be their primary goal, I'd like to suggest that it might be even more important to keep those new people in the game.

Because of my scouting duties for the national team, I have scouted the IV.1 to IV.10 in the Netherlands this season three times. It is quite shocking to see that the percentage of managers which stop playing this wonderful game in a few days - weeks - months is quite high (i estimate it's about 90%, you got the numbers, it might be less). We (managers which stay more than 2 months) know this game is wonderful and will seldom leave. That amount of people which came to the game and left the game this season will probably be 16*10*90%= 144, that's about 1/3 of our countrysize (in managers) That's simply too much.

We should ask ourselfs "Why do they all leave?" and try to prevent that from happening. If you could make the percentage fallouts smaller, than the game will grow, and advertisements will bear more fruit then they do now.

Arsjitekt - NT Coach The Netherlands

Furthermore, there is something that bothers me. I might be right, I might be wrong. But looking at the current division system in Holland we have:
one I (16 participants)
four II (64 participants)
sixteen III (256 participants)
sixtyfour IV (1024 participants)

I believe that the people playing in the I, II and III are filled
so are partly the IV.1 til IV.10, you fill these divisions in a good way, first the IV.1 full, than the IV.2 etcetera.

However when people demote from the III, these are 256/4 = 64 participants, they all go to a IV, filled with bot teams, that ain't much fun and a lot of those 64 teams stop playing. that's a shame. Wouldn't it be better that the divisionstructure in countries like the netherlands (where series don't fill quick enough) would get the bottleform first instead of the piramid form?

That means you'll get
one I (16 participants)
four II (64 participants)
sixteen III (256 participants)
sixteen IV (256 participants)

Yes, the playoffs structure has to get different in the IVth division, but I really think it is better for the game.

And (just brainstorming) when those are (almost) filled you go to a more piramidlike divisionstructure??:
That means you'll get
one I (16 participants)
four II (64 participants)
sixteen III (256 participants)
sixteen IV (512 participants)

I really think that it will keep more people in the game and it might be the right solution for countries where the divisions don't fill (we got the same amount of usres than last season?) anymore.

Van mij mag het ook in NL hoor, maar ik beantwoord nog even in Engels, wellicht heb je dat liever.

The primary goal of Edju and I isn't just to increase the amount of new managers. Basically it's increasing the profit of BuzzerBeater. This includes attracting more managers, but certainly also includes keeping them in game for longer. The average user that buys Supporter for the first time, plays the game for a season. We don't see many people that joined the game a week ago buying Supporter. As you probably know, Supporter is an important source of income, along with advertisements. If we don't manage to keep those users in game, we are missing potential Supporter sales and as you mention, advertisement income.

So indeed, we agree the churn rate is too high at the moment (and it will always be too high, until it's zero hehe). We also discussed the problem you noted here, but having such a structure also adds other problems. If put all relegated teams in the lowest divisions together in a human league, the majority of these teams will most likely never promote again. I'm not sure that will help as well. We also checked the quitting rates of people that relegate to human leagues and to bot leagues in the lowest divisions, and there only seems to be a small difference, way smaller than I expected.

I'm not sure what possiblities we got with a dynamic structure. It's very complicated to change the amount of leagues in a division, since you need to change the whole relegation/promotion system in between etc.
We might consider flatting leagues out in lower divisions, just as in HT f.e, where as you know the promotion rules for D4 to D3 are different than the ones for D10 to D9 etc.

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 03/19/2010 13:51:53

As a (soon) former U21 England coach, I have suggested an idea to BB-Edju that I feel it would benefit the England NT and U21 team and the new coaches, but I was told this was (most likely) not an option...

I admire your work to scout all these lower leagues and check all the time what teams are still active and what teams arent. There are only a handful off BB people and only 2 that have the task to bring new players to the game or keep exsisting ones in the game.

Like you have maybe noticed, we have in England the same problem, Austria and many similar sized countries have this problem. Teams in div III and IV come and go more often than trains stop at Utrecht station. For the BB game over all this is a loss, for the NT this means making progress for smaller countries like England or Holland is hard.

This is where my idea could fill that gap, but that idea was turned down. Let me try and explain. As a NT coach/team you spend alot off time checking lower leagues to find new teams with possible U21 and future NT players. What about giving the NT and/or U21 coaches a weekly or two weekly report with what teams signed up recently. This would make their job a lot easier. The way the BB game overal would benefit from this is quite obvious to me, not so obvious to others. The U21 and/or NT coach than could contact these new coaches, welcome them to the community in a personal way and not with the automated standard email, tell them about the buddy system, make them aware off the community and where they can find handy posts on the forums. You could also let them know how they could contribute making the U21 and NT stronger.

If I am a new player, it would give me a very big incentive to stay longer, than to get lost in this maze (bb isnt an easy game when you first start), and on the long term I am sure we would see more people stay playing BB. Even if it is only a few % off the new sign ups that stays, it would be a great gain on the long run...

What do you guys think?

Last edited by Astragoth at 03/19/2010 13:59:22

It will probably help a bit. For a U21/NT it is great. However looking at the problem, something bigger needs to be done.

Currently we got the BB-Buddy system in The Netherlands, managers who apply for a buddy are far more likely to stay. However the managers of new teams do seem to have difficulties to get to us. So we will now try to get to them. I'm curious to find out the rate will get better through this.

yes, i understand and agree that getting to these new coaches is the key. wouldnt it help you to get a list every week or every 2 weeks with the new sign ups?

That way you can direct them to the buddy system and other important things...

If that would happen, I am sure you agree with me that the chance off more players staying longer is bigger right?

More players, means more possible U21 and NT players being trained.

So both BB and the U21/NT would benefit, short or long term, or do I see this wrong?

yes you are right

Like you have maybe noticed, we have in England the same problem, Austria and many similar sized countries have this problem. Teams in div III and IV come and go more often than trains stop at Utrecht station. For the BB game over all this is a loss, for the NT this means making progress for smaller countries like England or Holland is hard.

I think this is only a normal thing, and trying to force it to go an other way is probalby the same as forcing nature to do something unnatural.
It might work for a while, but in the end it will have devastating effects.

Some things are just natural, and it's best to accept it, way better then trying to artificially create an other thruth.

Some people will start the game and get adicted and stay as long as everything remains natural. Others will not get addicted and most of those will leave sooner or later, no matter what tricks you come up with.

The only, and best thing to do, is try to make the game as enjoyable as possible, and that way you wil get the ebst results as most people will stay a longer time.

The other most important thing is to get more people flow in the game, then leaving it, as everybody eventually will leave the game at some point in time.

So in short: have a steady and big flow of incomming players + make sure the game is enjoyable enough so many stay for a while.

:)

niet sarcastisch bedoeld maar je kan genoeg reclame maken op gewoon openbare netwerken?

HYVES voor de nederlanders. Maak een buzzerbeater hyves aan
Facebook: lijkt me ook vrij makkelijk te realiseren.

Clubs, is leuk maar ik heb jaren gespeeld en het enige wat ik checkte waren de games.....

Zou een suggestie willen maken om de buzzerbeater hyves door iemand te laten maken
en die persoon ook een facebook buzzerbeater te maken en dan daarmee alle Basketball hyves en FB af te gaan.

Een linkje daarin is zo gemaakt

BuzzerBeater is al aanwezig op zowel Facebook als Twitter. Hyves nog niet en dat is wellicht een idee, maar wel veel meer getarget op de NL markt waar de interesse voor basketball niet bijzonder hoog is.

denk dat je even moet kijken op de basketball hyves....toch redelijk wat leden....