BuzzerBeater Forums

to welington


brazil got embarrassed in the semis and 3rd place match, so would you still help BB -marin in developing the BB app? just kidding, i know you are now working on it. peace

LOL :)

Yeah, that was ugly. But it was deserved anyway, our team sucked.

We'll see how it goes, I've been working a lot since then, still need to talk to Marin.

Hey Marin

Wellington posted this previously.

I'm not sure how BB is coded, but if there was some kind of form or method to set up lineups, for instance, it wouldn't really be expensive or difficult to create an interface to receive roster data, enable users to play with it and then send it back. I know I'm talking about one simple functionality inside the game, but I'd recommend an incremental approach anyway.

This should enable the mobile devs to code an app without ever touching or seeing the code behind BB as they would only need some kind of spec of the data exchange.

This is my idea as well. Essentially you would just build a 'wrapper'. a GUI which communicates to the BB-DB and just grabs that user's data for setting lineups etc. No-game engine data or anything like that needs to be sent. All game data, such as box scores, play-by-play would be 'view-only'. just like how you have it now.
So the only thing that a GUI developer needs to know is that he is receiving data for a list. Essentially the developer is going to developer containers and lists that can handle the type of text data that the user needs to manipulate.

Also have a look at what other websites do - Some other websites offer a 'cut-down' or mobile-friendly version of their website. Less content, bigger text, etc, but still with enough functionality to get them by. Banks are a good example of this. You can't do everything with a bank-mobile app, but the core features are there.

So id probably look at the following to begin with:
a) A cut-down version of the whole site as a starting point. Put in in the core functions that you want people to be able to do. You want to give the users enough functionality to 'play the game' whilst restricting how much work you do. So for example. Set-lineups, forum posts, change training, put bids on players, asking for scrimmages, change drafting, sell/fire players, send in-game mail, arena building. Probably a few more things there, but limit it to that.
All other functionality would be removed, and only availalbe on the full-site.
b) An 'app' which directs users to the 'mobile friendly' website - Its kind of cheating as an app i know, but its essentially what other people do very often. And if a user is on a mobile device, if they type in the URL, they get redirected to the mobile site (ie: no app needed really). A downloadable app is just for completeness.

So thats what I would aim for for version 1. It at least gets it out there, would enable people to play the game on their mobiles/tablets.

Then see how that goes. If its a success, invest into bringing the entire site over.

Incremental - baby steps. even what ive suggested above is probably too big haha. But yer, small steps towards a longer term goal.

Good luck.

I began writing a mobile version of the site as a pet project for my own purposes a few years ago.. had some success using a combination of:

1. BBAPI
2. Mimicking the requests sent by the full site, and parsing the response to rendering it into a mobile friendly display

Option 1 gives you a lot of read only access - but for write access I had to use option 2 which got fairly painful as some requests could get quite tricky, and it was a fairly time consuming activity.

As many have stated previously, the most feasible approach to outsourcing this work would be a combination of BB-Devs exposing services that the App Devs can consume. Probably the easiest way is:

1. Crowd source the requirements of the App. What kind of functionality do users want to see? Filter the most common requirements that cover the majority of the users needs for the initial version - more features can be added in subsequent releases.

2. Construct a wireframe of the app to demonstrate the interface and functionality that will be exposed. No integration is necessary yet. Intent of this phase is to ensure the end users are happy with what is going to be developed. Constructing a wireframe also helps with identifying integration requirements - what calls to the BB backend are necessary to deliver the functionality required on each screen?

3. Work with the BB-Devs to expose the required functionality. The easiest way to do this would be for the BB-Devs to do some dev work on their end to expose this functionality through SOAP or REST services. This would essentially be a big expansion of the REST API.

4. Voila, you have your App. Not only do you have your App, you also have a new set of exposed services that will expand the third party community to do things more powerful than ever. This can be a good or bad thing.

I would probably question the need for HTTPS. This makes the solution a whole lot more complicated (you'd need certificates, more complex coding, more load on the servers etc.) The full site doesn't even use HTTPS, why should the mobile site?

2. Construct a wireframe of the app to demonstrate the interface and functionality that will be exposed. No integration is necessary yet. Intent of this phase is to ensure the end users are happy with what is going to be developed.

I remember I used to believe that showing user's wireframes was a good idea. Lets get user input, yer it will make them happy to know that they are getting what they want.

However now, after years of bashing my head against the wall from hearing feedback like "I want a button that looks like Hello Kitty!" im now of the belief that it is easier to just go "This is environment, if you don't like it, don't use it".

now that might not be the best attitude for a commercial product, but honestly, i could not imagine trying to coordinate the input of thousands of user's who 'think' that their input of the design of the site is the right way it should be done. You will never make everyone happy. As soon as 1 idea of the majority is not implemented, they will focus on that 1 missing idea and have a negative attidude about the product. HATE THIS about user engagement. *shudder*.

Ironically, ever since ive adopted a 'this is the interface' attitude, you do get more post implementation criticism, but as soon as you put a price tag on the changes, criticism is quickly shut up. haha.

You already have an app. It's called your browser and you get it on your phone.

How is there time to 'whip out' your phone but no time to 'whip out' your laptop? Is secrecy the key?

Your claim that the younger crowd will use computers less is interesting. Are they going to get rid of the internet? Do you think everything will become an application?

Players come and go for many reasons. Age, boredom, life commitments. Whatever the reason, people move on from things all the time.

There, problem solved.

I am glad that your life is not as busy as others but Buzzerbeater is a very diverse community with some managers being very busy. Some users are highschool or college students with lots of other activities and homework consuming their time and a decent amount of managers are adults with everyday jobs, spouses, children and a hectic lifestyle. Just because you have time to take out a laptop willy nilly does not mean other users have that luxury. The browser for buzzerbeater is very hard to use in my opinion and is nowhere near what a good app could do for BB and its users.

You say people leave for different reasons and one of them that you included was life commitments. This is exactly why an App is useful as an addition because not as many users would need to quit BB because of other commitments.

I suppose you are allowed to feel however you want about it, but I dont think you are thinking about other members in the comunnity that are more busy than you are. I personally am not one of the managers that is overly compiled with other activities but am still a busy person who would use the App and I mainly posted this as a suggested for other members in the community, not myself. 90ish% of the community look like they would use the app. You apparently will not, but need to realize that you are the minority in this situation.

Just read your bbmails you sent me and thought I'd address a few things. BB is a game, and I am not trying to attack anyone, so If I made you feel like I was attacking you I apologize. As for your actual message though, I hope you don't mind, but I felt like some of your points could be useful in this thread, such as:

1.

You also make assumptions about how much money BB has. How are you aware of their financial situation? Do you have any idea about the cost of developing an app? Did you know that just because you make one doesn't mean apple or android will support it? Do you know if BB made an app and were turned down? I'd be willing to place money on you don't know. If you did, you'd use that in your post.

You are right. I have no idea how much money BB has right now, but I can assume that they have at least 12,000 dollars based off of how many Utopia teams I see and how long the game has been around. Am I positive, no, but that is why it is an assumption. To me it seemed from BB-Marin's posts earlier in this thread, that money was not the issue though. I do not work in technology development and my most substantial impact on dealing with Apps is probably downloading 'Flappy Bird', so no, I do not have any knowledge on whether or not apple or android will support it. I think this is a good thing to bring up though, so kudos to you.

2.

One of the things BB does specifically is make sure you don't have to be on all the time. There are literally two days in a row where you don't need to do anything. From 645pm eastern time on Saturday to 645 on Tuesday you don't need to get on BB because nothing except updates happen. There is no training or games or scrimmages in that time. If you'd like to suggest that BB changes the weekly schedule, that is one thing, but saying the game is demanding is just untrue.

You are mistaken on this point. I'm not sure how much you follow Canada's NT and U21 NT, but I, along with many other users take part in planning for USA NT games which occur on monday. I coach the U21 NT and the time period that you listed as "You don't even have to log on", is actually when I tend to log on the most. I run three teams, which I guess you could say that it is my fault for making myself run three teams, but there is always something you can do on BB any day of the week. An App would be nice for these instances when I am out of my house with friends/family and just want to do a quick checkup on something, as I will have my phone with me, but not a laptop or computer. We can agree to disagree though, if you feel differently.

3.

People have many view points and when you post something, especially when you include a poll, you are begging for people to weigh in and you will get a variety of opinions. That's the point. It's a forum. For discussion!!

I realize. That is why you posted arguing why there shouldn't be one and then I posted saying why I disagreed and why there should be one. Discussion. I was curious to see how long you have been playing BB, because I feel like that is also a factor and noticed that this is your first season. I'm not sure if you have played BB in the past and this is just your new account but managers like Isaiah have been playing longer than you or I it seems (Isaiah since season 10 if I remember correctly, but I'm not 100% sure), and BB takes a toll on you after awhile, from what all the prominent USA managers have been saying that are oldies on BB. Many of them also suggested that a BB App would make things easier and help them stick around longer.

Once again, I apologize if you felt like I was attacking you, or if you feel like this post is an attack as well, but hopefully we can get off on a better foot now. I do appreciate your opinion and I feel like you made some valid points that BB should consider before making an App for sure.