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Perhaps the best way to get the matchups desired is to blank the assignments. I also think it is a gimmick defense that in terms of being used for an entire game is only effective against someone who is a one trick pony.

All the success I ever had with Box + 1 defenses is when I ran a team that was 5 starters and 2 bench guys deep basically of all similarly built players who all had 8-10 OD 8-11 ID and 5-8 SB.

All 5 could play defense interchangeably with each other. But I was forced to that end by subjecting myself to a 100% only players I draft and train team.

Last edited by RandyMoss at 7/26/2017 12:30:36 AM

At the beginning of 2015 I was very interessted in the two Box+1 defenses. The main reason was my trainee Haek. Some of you know him. At his peak, he had OD 18, ID 18 and SB 19. For me it was clear that no matter which defense I play, Haek will be the +1 defender.

So what did I do? I played several games and went through the play by play. Player by player, defense action by defense action and analyzed which of my players defended which opponent/position and what kind of shot (close, mid or long range).

Another main reason was the definition of the two boxes. The german translation says:
Innen Box plus Eins: Der fünfte Verteidiger konzentriert sich auf den offensiv besten Innenspieler des Gegners. Normale Geschwindigkeit. --> the +1 defends the best offensiv inside player

Außen Box plus Eins: Der fünfte Verteidiger konzentriert sich auf den offensiv besten Außenspieler des Gegners. Normale Geschwindigkeit. --> the +1 defend the best offensiv outside player

Here, I had a bad feeling... but I will come back to it later.

Game 1: (81780641)
Outside box +1

I thought that my Haek will defend the 130k and 1.53 mio DMI PG Roggenbach. He was the best outside player, like the description says. But the engine decided that Groner (SF, 96k and 1.11 mio DMI) was the bigger thread. It was a close call.
I was pretty angry about the fact that my SF Maksic had to defend 7 close range shot (dunks, driving layups etc.) but only one mid range shot. At the same time my PF and C defended 3pters.

Game 2: (81780645)
Outside box +1

Again Outside box+1 and accordong to the german game manual, Haek should defend the best outside player. So clear thing: 210k PG!
Yeah, it was the C with 268k and 5.84 mio DMI!!! To be honest, the C had no chance, but this wasn't the expected result. After this game I had the idea that the description is wrong.
My PF defended most of the shots. He had 22 defense actions. 8 times a 3pter, 8 times mid range and 6 times close range. And my C defended some 3pters too.

Game 3: (81780650)
Outside box +1

My third try. According to the manual I expected that Haek will defend the SG (110k and 2 mio DMI). But was afraid that he will play against the PF (79k and 1.49 mio DMI). It was the PF. And he was stopped.
My PF defended again most of the shots. He had 24 defense actions. My SF defended most of his play time inside. And my C with OD 1 had a lot of long range and mid range shots against him. So a really bad situation.


Game 4: (81780654)
Inside box +1

After three games with outside box, I went to the inside box. Here I already expected that Haek would defend the best outside player. Bullseye! It was the SG. And he had a really bad day against my defense monster ;)

At the same time my other four starters moved more to the inside. The had more mid and close range defense actions now. My idea was that Haek was at the top and the other four moved between him and the rim.


Game 5: (81780658)
Inside box +1

My guess was, Haek will defend the SG. And he defended him. 2-11 FG is a hell of a defense. The offense was moved to the other players.

My PF defended again most of the shots. 23 times. My C had 16 defense actions, and my SF was a little bit behind.



The result (for me):
Outside box: Four players move to the outside. The best OD+ID+SB player is the +1 and he gets m2m with the best calculated inside offense option of the opponent. He will stop him, but there is no guarantee that another player (2nd option) won't step up.

Inside box: Four player move to the inside. Again the best defender is the +1. But this time he defends m2m the best outside offense option.

The four players in the box switch a lot. So it's no surprise that bad OD bigs create missmatches and have to defend 3pters.

There were some other game in my federation, which were tested and analysed:

(81780445)
Inside box +1

SG was the +1 and defended Thuine (PG). The PF Koppel had the most work with 17 defense actions.


(81780613)
Inside box +1

Petrushin (SF) was the +1 and defended Haurys (SG)

(81780616)
Inside box +1

Petrushin (SF) was the +1 and defended Löbbecke (PG)


(81780619)
Inside box +1

Petrushin (SF) was the +1 and defended Kaligoulas (SG)


(81780624)
Inside box +1

Petrushin (SF) was the +1 and defended Fiorito (PG)


(81780624)
Inside box +1

Linna (SF) was the +1 and defended Mangeot (SG).


There are some other games, but I think you get the main idea.


In the end, there is only one point left:

I think the descriptions of the two boxes are switched!

:) Awesome work.
Well Gully will be happy, this was his understanding of the box defences when me, him and at least one other person discussed them, but he was "outvoted".

Why hasn't such a basic piece of the game manual being wrong been updated? (Unless there is a way they make sense in the current wording, it's just using logic I can't wrap my head around / not very common sensical)

I haven't played it loads, but it seems I should've been able to come to the same conclusion myself.

:) Awesome work.
Well Gully will be happy, this was his understanding of the box defences when me, him and at least one other person discussed them, but he was "outvoted".

I don't remember that being a long discussion. Pretty sure it was during this game: (40878). I said why I'd used it, two of you said I was mistaken, and my next words may have been "oops."

Its possible that I'd read what Nachtmahr wrote previously but also the key is the wording. Inside box plus one to me indicates the box forms inside with four players, kinda like ol' squares in a battle, like you see in a calendar, like the Battle of Waterloo, and the plus one is then the outside defender.

Also, the ratings when I used outside box and one were somewhere between man to man and 3-2, which seemed to indicate that it was something like a 2-2-1, which again seemed to be a box on the outside and one man inside.

I do remember not fighting my corner so certainly my thoughts weren't strongly held.

Well Gully will be happy, this was his understanding of the box defences when me, him and at least one other person discussed them, but he was "outvoted"

I think that was me, but in my defense:
1) the manual is clear
2) nobody knows why, but it never happens the way the manual says and in most cases it's hard to understand the logic behind what's happening


Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/4/2017 10:47:15 AM

Dean Smith is God!

Inside box plus one to me indicates the box forms inside with four players, kinda like ol' squares in a battle, like you see in a calendar, like the Battle of Waterloo, and the plus one is then the outside defender.

I have the same opinion. My guess is that the box moves out of the way of the +1. They will still defend the area of the +1 defender, but there is still a movement of this 2-2 box.

Can we clarify what the Game Manual means by "Fifth defender"? What does that mean in the GE? The C? or the defender with the most ID or OD depending on which box you run?

I would say the best OD/ID/SB player. Or with other words: the best defensive player by rating (how this rating is calculated is another question)