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maybe some of the fault lies with the advice given at the outset when dealing with a rookie 18y/o - i got some really good training advice when I started out with Ellsworth 7 seasons ago which gave him a rounded set of training skills - had I not had that advice he would have been trained differently I think as I was new to the game - I think when Moomins talks of a waste it relates more to what could have been if the right guidance had been given at the time - taking nothing away from the training that the player has had which takes true commitment and dedication which should be acknowledged, if secondaries had also been developed more then he would be pushing for the NT.

Maybe a way forward is to communicate the sort od stats that each position requires and a training programme designed to help achieve this.

I think the set up has changed now and there is more hands on advice for trainers which has improved the quality of players coming through. Just look at the U21's this season challenging and beating team much higher in the standings than themselves - whilst the coach rightly takes the credit, credit also goes to all those coaches training NT players managing GS and continuing to improve them.


cheers

Lambaw

Last edited by Lambaw at 11/29/2011 1:04:15 PM

wow ive come in a bit late on this so there probably isnt much to say that hasnt already been said on both sides.

i think daddy dog has done an excellent job with his trainee. Hall was not one of the best trainees of his age, but boy did his manager work him hard on the court and in the gym!
I also believe now (this season) is the best time to sell him in general, and by the sounds of it for daddy dog's team too and its organisation and performance. i think the price reflects the fact that the sale doesnt need to be rushed and the intenton is to carry on training his insides if noone will buy at the listed price.

anyway I tracked this player with daddy dog since he bought him and always mentioned that in the long term his secondaries would be an issue and to consider the tradeoffs between training for U21 and NT.
as it turns out training his outsides would have required an epic effort even if he had started at 18 purely with the goal of making the NT team rather than U21.
daddy dog made an educated decision to suit his team and that can never be wrong. There will now be another english centre out there that a team can use to good effect - albeit not in the top flights, but in the next level down. there is scope for some low levels of outside training which will do him some good at the domestic level.

i know astra didnt mean any offense, but it can be hard to write messages that are taken in the right way.

im personally looking forward to working with him on his next project (if he would like to) and if making an NT player is his ambition then i will help him to pick a suitable draftee to do so!

i must stress daddy dog really has done well to train danny the way he has and bring success to his club! :)

sorry Fluff no criticism meant in my post :-)

none taken! meant to be a reply to all 19 messages :)

Whenever you read Astra's opinions it's worth remembering English isn't his first language, and he can't always express himself with the degree of subtely some of us would prefer.

All he meant was he wished you'd started with a better player as you were clearly committed to training for England and have done so effectively.

Hall is unlikely to ever be an NT player anyway, we have enough Superstar potential big men who are pretty much capped out. Really, the only places for Superstar POT players on the NT roster are at SF and possibly, as a role player at PF.

It's MVP, HoF and ATG trainees the NT needs.

I think Daddy Dog has done an excellent job training Danny, his inside skills are some of the best i've ever seen at his age! Yes, his outsides are limited, but he bought the best he could with his money? Let's be happy that he's training English players! I also think that it would cost alot more than 500k to buy a player you are describing, rookies as balanced as that go for ridiculous money. Moreover Danny will help the u21's greatly for 2 seasons yet.

Anyway, who's to say Danny wont get some outside training at some point in his career...

i think there is a chance of buying a better 19 year old or a similar 18 year old after the rush at the start of the season for 500k ish. but its as much about the luck of such a player with that potential turning up.
actually with a potential higher than superstar price tags start to go silly whenever it seems

All he meant was he wished you'd started with a better player as you were clearly committed to training for England and have done so effectively

this is exactly what i ment to say. i know we had our arguments in the past due to my level off english, but it is clear that you now can read between the lines and understand exactly what I am trying to say. Probably being a NT in the past yourself helped alot. thanks for explaining "exactly to the point" what i ment and wanted to say...

i have trained that myself and there is a reason why i say we need players with inept or mediocre secondary skills to start with. it is almost impossible to train big skills for small guys and guard skills for tall guys. I would never suggested anyone to do it and would never expect anyone to do it. off course it is welcomed, but it is slow as hell even with a level 6 trainer that i have.

you are right on that fluff, but indeed people could start with a 19 year old. this is what I am trying to get across and most people do understand it but some dont.

As a NT coach I can only guide people into what we need for the future off the NT. And like elmacca said, it would help the NT more to have 19 year MVPs or HoF or better potentials to be trained than 18 year perennial allstars or superstars. (if there is nothing available at a good price at 18 years). Simply because we have 5-6-7 bigs that are half decent and at an age that they can still play for the NT for another 5-6-7 seasons, but they are all salary capped at Superstar potential. In order to get better players, which you as an english community should aim at, do you want the NT to move forward is, train bigger salary players and for this you need higher potential. If this isnt possible due to lack of 18 year olds fitting the bill, perhaps people can train 19 year olds...

trust me, merchandise wise it is very welcoming for a team to train their own draftee to NT potential...

I think it's better for the England coach to be in a position where he can be truly honest about what player skills he wants in the future, rather than a political stooge who has to be nice and offer complements to players who wont make the cut, regardless if English is a first language or not.

Surely if the england coach points out a area which could ensure your player is a contender at national level, surely it's time to adapt. What if, in the future we have 8 250000+ centres and none of them can pass or have decent od, this could be a way of ensuring your guy is the obvious alternative?