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There's one thing I think we can agree on:

The game should be more about tactics.

I agree with you on that,it only deepen the distance between clubs...this is why i suggested to make the stuff take % from the income that way 5division and 1 division clubs will have more fair chance to be equal one day.

And the current system is so idiotic...i cant understand ignoring reality a little or more...but it's totaly ignored here.
The old system is still better then the current one so why protect this so called "improvment"? it's not a "Challenge" it just make you angry and waste money that you need.Show me one club that change it's entire stuff each season! in my country tea, doctors can be with thier team for more then 20 years...it's very rare to see one replaced,becouse there is no need for that,when it happens it's the doctors call almost all the time(or late age).

How ridiculous it sound to hear a story on a staff memeber get a firing notice because "his salsaty went up too fast each week in real life people dont get a yealy wage raise each year but in BB! the game that declare it's realistic they get a weekly increase no matter if they are the best(lvl 7)or the worst(lvl 1),we can all just wish we were BB doctors PR managers or trainers...best job in the world.Still ask why to change this so called "working" system?

Last edited by Doctor J at 9/24/2012 1:59:06 AM

I fail to see any points backing up "the old system is still better than the current one."
Mind giving us some?

What´s better in having a coach who is listed at level 10 and which performs like level 3 without you having ANY accessible data about his current level of skills?

Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 9/24/2012 2:44:57 AM

What is good in the currenct system? nothing!

I already told that the old let top team and noob team same chance and tools why do you ignore that?
Also ingoring the weekly raise the is simply ridiculous...you know what? just read the last post again because if you ask for points yu either didnt read it or totaly ignored what is written there.

Good in the current system?

You know what you guy is doing. You know his price. You can tell by the ratio between KNOWN skill and KNOWN price whether you want to afford that or not, as you KNOW the price to change this by accessing the bidding site for coaches of similar skills / similar cost. You even know what he will cost tomorrow, in a week, a month, a year if you want to.

It´s a equation between performance, need and cost. That´s what managing is about, isn´t it?

The old system had a big load of intangibles - how good is he, what will he actually perform like...

And the proposed change towards ONE change in salary would lead to an highly instable and unpredictable market, as it would create some 10k teams needing a new staff member within 10 days. So the bidding war would most likely go through the roof in the first weeks of the season.

The current system is balanced. And if you look at the staff member as a free lancer with an initial sign up fee before the first session it´s not that far off reality as you might think.

Is it me or in the old system, staff would lost a level from time to time to force people to change again ?

Yes. And if there was no good staff available, you were then stuck with an underperforming staff member even if you had money to spend. Not the case now.

The old system was random and required constant (weekly) monitoring to run it effectively. Even then you could be screwed due to the effect explained above but that just goes with the randomness. The current one is stable and requires no micro management. But it does require planning ahead (and possibly action) at least on the season level, which seems reasonable for staff system. The only real problem is the supply/price of new staff, but that is a problem everyone shares. This can make staff changes appear like too much work if one insists on having good staff (mainly trainer). Overall, the current mechanism anyway seems to work quite nicely from the game design point of view.

I would mostly be interested in improvements to the way the staff does their business. If you want a change, make that aspect somehow deeper and more involving. I don't know how. The "weekly price increase is not realistic" rant is getting pretty old, and there is no clear proposal on how to improve that such that it makes the game nicer to play. More realistic is not the same thing as more playable.

GM-seelenjaeger - It sound like you just dont want to do nothing,the "good" things you say about the system a void in my eyes...and no it's not all about manage it's the staff you dont need to take so much planing with them.

And i must underscore that i dont think that the opld system was very good,i just say it sucked less then the current one and i dont see the "improvment" in it and onlt see defects in it.

GM-WallyOop - I agree that the staff system should be a 1 time in season handeling but by the weeky wage rise it is NOT.
You can say that "rant is old" but that IS the main defect in this system! and i suggested that the stuff members will take
a certin % of the team income and AGAIN it is ignored and you say that "there is no clear proposal"? what is that if not a proposal?

We dont want a weekly wage rise,i dont even think that the staff bidding system is a good idea as it cause a lot of problems as an advantage for richer teams,unstable prices(the same lvl 6 coach can be bought one time at 1M and next week at 200K it's all about how many teams and how rich the teams that want him)and it also make a lot of resistance to changes in the current system to prevent bidding wars and a lot of users in need of new staff...i dont thik it shoukd be a bidding system they are not players! there are fights in the players market but on staff market?

But i can live with the bidding system(even that it suck and i think i also need to be changed)but the wage rise is a critical issue - dont cancel it with "old rant" IT NEED TO BE CHANGED aint BB suppose to be a game for fun? well that ruin it a lot,i have so many good things to say about this game and i try to get friend involved in it and this is the only thing that is so bad in it that i feel that it MUST be changed,all other things are minor and can be lived with.

I played in 3-4 other basketball games like BB non was close to the fun it give but all had a lot better staff systems...dont we want to improve the game instead of saying "it's good as it is?" i am sure that a user survey on this would see a lot more then 50% supporting a change to the staff system.

suggestion: (open for development and discussion)

a) each team will have a staff member with a salary that either stays the same throughout the entire season or takes a certain percent of teams income (as Doctor J suggested).

b) twice a season all managers will have the option to change their staff members either one level down or one level up (without bidding!). both upgrade or downgrade will cost the manger a certain amount of cash (downgrade will cost less then upgrade) this change of staff option will be open at start of season and on all-star week (mid season).

c) at any point of the season manager can fire any staff member (to save salaries) and remain with a minimal level staff. he cant hire a new manager until the seasonal staff change periods described in section b. mind that firing a staff member is an extreme move because when time come u can only hire a new staff with just ONE level higher then what u have now...

this system (after some further corrections and thought put into it) will force managers to really put thought into any staff change they do, considering if they have the economy to allow a better and more expensive staff, and plan ahead to current and next seasons.
it can also give us a better view and ability to really plan our weekly economy, because if we calculated that a certain staff is what we can afford, we wont be "stuck" suddenly with a level 5 trainer that eats up a salary that many level 7 trainers dont get.

open for debate/improvement suggestions

GM-WallyOop - I agree that the staff system should be a 1 time in season handeling but by the weeky wage rise it is NOT.
You can say that "rant is old" but that IS the main defect in this system! and i suggested that the stuff members will take
a certin % of the team income and AGAIN it is ignored and you say that "there is no clear proposal"? what is that if not a proposal?

My point is that the weekly raise is completely predictable. Therefore you need not keep an eye on the staff wages all the time. On the other hand, a change where the spending on staff input does not change over time (in your proposal it fluctuates in absolute values but not in relative values) requires very little planning whatsoever. It's largely just set once, then forget sort of thing. (Think arena building for established teams. How exciting is that?) The game play implications of the current system win in my opinion.

But i can live with the bidding system(even that it suck and i think i also need to be changed)but the wage rise is a critical issue - dont cancel it with "old rant" IT NEED TO BE CHANGED aint BB suppose to be a game for fun? well that ruin it a lot,i have so many good things to say about this game and i try to get friend involved in it and this is the only thing that is so bad in it that i feel that it MUST be changed,all other things are minor and can be lived with.

Seriously?

But I would actually gladly change the staff bidding system if someone presented a well-thought alternative. The way it is currently implemented is just about need right now - buy at any cost, need later - try to find a deal. The staff members have a constant pay increase (in %) and zero or one specialty per bozo. It's a fairly simple numbers game and pretty boring really to bid in this setting. With player auctions, you are dealing with training plans, game tactics, skill distributions, NT spot/potential, visible personalities (if you are at least a bit role playing inclined), etc. There seems to be a point in the bidding, and it can even be fun. I like it although it can be frustrating at times. As a seller, it can also be somewhat interesting. Staff bidding is just about saving a little money or more of your in-game time.

dont we want to improve the game instead of saying "it's good as it is?" i am sure that a user survey on this would see a lot more then 50% supporting a change to the staff system.

I am all for improvements, have been all the time. Like said, more realistic is not the same thing as more playable.