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Season 6 Changes

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This Post:
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40617.261 in reply to 40617.258
Date: 8/3/2008 7:44:17 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
303303
It means quick decisions without any investigations or polls?

Does not sound very reliable, more like dictator kind of decision!

Why without any warnings!


No one said there weren't "investigations", did they?

NO ONE at this table ordered a rum & Coke
Charles: Penn has some good people
A CT? Really?
Any two will do
Any three for me
Any four will score
Any five are live
This Post:
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40617.262 in reply to 40617.260
Date: 8/4/2008 1:33:34 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
8080
No, with these changes they started a controvercy, with "tax on arena solution" they would create a big controvercy . The reason is that the latter solution would target a specfic group more clearly, thus this group would have got realy upset, and it would open up for a lot of "fights" between managers with big and small arenas.

The chosen solution on the other hand creates a controvercy, but even if we are a few that are upset with it you must admit that it is still a pretty calm and balanced reaction we are seeing in the forum.

This Post:
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40617.263 in reply to 40617.262
Date: 8/4/2008 2:00:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
22
262 comments on the changes and probably less than 10 people agreed with them (don't know if it even got close to 5...). I think there's a pretty big controversy. Matter of interpretation.

As to your predictions about what would happen with the other alternative: could be, but if what you said is correct, that the bb's probably agree that taxing arenas would be a better alternative, but didn't do it because some people would feel bad about it, then I think it's a serious issue. BB's shouldn't be held from doing what they feel is correct because they're afraid of the reaction.

I don't think that's what happened though. I don't think BB's felt taxing arenas was a good idea but were afraid of consequences. I think BB's didn't think enough about their changes and several points have been made in this topic that were left without any perspective of solution (mid / small teams in D1 situation; small countries D1; etc).

Most of the people I saw complaining here (and I read the whole post from the start) agree that changes should be made, which I believe is the reason you're saying it's a pretty calm reaction. It's the nature and the lack of warning that pissed off most, but you can't ignore that there are GM's giving the "we're all doomed" speach, saying this is "Game Over" and some people agreeing. I even recieved a BB-Mail from a GM trying to talk me into some sort of rebellion against the changes.

Now, I've been in BB since season 2 and I had never seen any change create a reaction as big as this change has. I don't agree at all that this isn't a big controversy, I think BB's knew there would be a pretty big reaction, and I don't think they avoided taxing arenas because of possible reactions.

Moreover, I do think sometime in the future BB's will decide to tax arenas. But on this one we'll just have to wait and see.

Last edited by LA-André at 8/4/2008 2:04:18 AM

This Post:
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40617.264 in reply to 40617.263
Date: 8/4/2008 2:18:42 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
22
262 comments on the changes and probably less than 10 people agreed with them (don't know if it even got close to 5...). I think there's a pretty big controversy. Matter of interpretation.


sure. but the ones who agree to these changes do not post in the thread !!1

btw. I agree ;-)

I dont think it was good that BBs announced them so late, but charles explained why. charles also explained why they were necessary and he was absolutely right about it. So I believe this was not only a good move but also a necessary move by the BBs!!!

This Post:
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40617.265 in reply to 40617.264
Date: 8/4/2008 2:59:05 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
Can you say, how much fans come in your home game, will be increasing by % I think it would be usefull to know, and we build our arena now, not next season :)

This Post:
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40617.266 in reply to 40617.263
Date: 8/4/2008 3:23:57 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
8080
262 comments on the changes and probably less than 10 people agreed with them (don't know if it even got close to 5...). I think there's a pretty big controversy. Matter of interpretation.
I bet you the reaction would be much more intense with the "arena tax solution" even if I personally think it is a better solution on paper.
As to your predictions about what would happen with the other alternative: could be, but if what you said is correct, that the bb's probably agree that taxing arenas would be a better alternative, but didn't do it because some people would feel bad about it, then I think it's a serious issue. BB's shouldn't be held from doing what they feel is correct because they're afraid of the reaction.
I do not agree at all. If they would have chosen a solution that would ruin the ambient in the forums for a long time -and I sure that change would have done that- they have made a good management decision.

Of course, ideally, they would have reacted earlier and then been able to use the tax solution, but now they had to act in panic and chose a solution that was less controvesial, even though obviously still far from ideal.
I don't think that's what happened though. I don't think BB's felt taxing arenas was a good idea but were afraid of consequences. I think BB's didn't think enough about their changes and several points have been made in this topic that were left without any perspective of solution (mid / small teams in D1 situation; small countries D1; etc).
You might be correct, but I honestly think that they did consider the different solutions and made the correct cjoice between pest and cholera. However, it might be as you say that they did not analyse enough, but just happened to do the best choice (considering how late they where with their changes).
Most of the people I saw complaining here (and I read the whole post from the start) agree that changes should be made, which I believe is the reason you're saying it's a pretty calm reaction. It's the nature and the lack of warning that pissed off most, but you can't ignore that there are GM's giving the "we're all doomed" speach, saying this is "Game Over" and some people agreeing. I even recieved a BB-Mail from a GM trying to talk me into some sort of rebellion against the changes.
I think this was an expected reaction. No surprise at all, but I am confident that the "tax on arena" solution would create a much worse reaction and forum mood.
Now, I've been in BB since season 2 and I had never seen any change create a reaction as big as this change has. I don't agree at all that this isn't a big controversy, I think BB's knew there would be a pretty big reaction, and I don't think they avoided taxing arenas because of possible reactions.
Yes, and I have never denied that they expected reactions. Actually I have said quite the opposite. They have never had to do anything near as drastic as this change either, and they where very late in introducing it, so whatever solution they chose it would have created controvercy.

However, try to imagine the reactions on a "tax on arena" solution. Then you would have two clear groups; those with big and those with small arenas that would endup in endless and angry discussions which this thread is not even close to reach.
Moreover, I do think sometime in the future BB's will decide to tax arenas. But on this one we'll just have to wait and see.
I completely agree with this, that's why I suggested that BB should setup a plan to gradually move from the current panic solution to a more stable "tax on arena solution".

This Post:
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40617.267 in reply to 40617.264
Date: 8/4/2008 3:29:21 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
22
sure. but the ones who agree to these changes do not post in the thread !!1


Could be. Or not. No real way to know unless a survey is sent out, and you could still make a point about how people who agree with the changes didn't answer the survey.

Deducing there is a great number of people in favor of the changes is impossible. It's pure speculation that, because you agree and haven't posted before, that there is a big number of well-informed people (assuming that you are well informed and have read this whole thread) that agree with the changes and haven't posted.

I dont think it was good that BBs announced them so late, but charles explained why. charles also explained why they were necessary and he was absolutely right about it. So I believe this was not only a good move but also a necessary move by the BBs!!!


Again: few people have actually said there shouldn't be changes. What I and other people don't agree with is with these specific changes, and I feel better changes (judging them by effectiveness in reducing inflation and granting possibilities for all teams to keep growing) were suggested here; whereas the current changes won't grant the second part (possibilities for all teams to keep growing). Quite a few teams will have to do major cuts, and BB staff idea, I'm pretty sure, wasn't cuting flesh, but cuting excess.

Some teams will have to sell players in order to keep alive (cuting flesh); and the teams that motivated the change with their excessive gaining will lose some of their excess, but won't really have to make major changes, just won't be able to buy as much as they did.

The news item said Torooo made 8.2M this season. Take 40% from that and he'll still be fine. And what about the teams that made 1M, 2M? and there are quite a lot of D1 teams that did even less (in liquid).

That's the point that's being criticized. BB's thought only about the top dogs when implementing these changes. They thought about taking part of their receipts away, which is fine, but they didn't really think about what would happen with gate-dependent teams.

Last edited by LA-André at 8/4/2008 3:29:53 AM

This Post:
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40617.268 in reply to 40617.267
Date: 8/4/2008 4:06:50 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
Could be. Or not. No real way to know unless a survey is sent out, and you could still make a point about how people who agree with the changes didn't answer the survey.


But you could complain about it without the journey and dramtized Numbers? There was alot more then 5 agrrees to it, and in the 260 post there are also a lto 0f people who post more then once(but only the against was counted double) or about the youth national Team.

The most angry post was about the speed the BB implemented the change not against the "how" and so on ... And i like the way they solve it, and i started in div II and promote after one or two month in div one, and i could say my fans are incressing pretty fast in comparison to the guys who started in div IV, so i would have enarly the same money like then so i wo't see why they should go for bankrupcy because of those changes ...

And new teams even got cheapers salaries.

This Post:
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40617.269 in reply to 40617.268
Date: 8/4/2008 5:20:25 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
22
But you could complain about it without the journey and dramtized Numbers?

Sure. Will look into this in the future.

I should say though that the intention wasn't to be scientifical about it or anything. It was to stress that this is a big controversy.

This Post:
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40617.270 in reply to 40617.269
Date: 8/4/2008 5:34:46 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
8080

Sure. Will look into this in the future.

I should say though that the intention wasn't to be scientifical about it or anything. It was to stress that this is a big controversy.
If it really was a big contovercy you would not need to exaggerate to proove it. ;) For big controvercys you should look at things like daytrading and deflation controvercies in Hattrick.

Anyway, I think it is more productive to try to focus on how a longterm solution would look like. I am sure that everyone, including the BBs, dont think that a panic solution as the one they had to introduce now is good. The current solution offers a good time out in which the community can be constructive and find better solutions for the future.

Last edited by chespirito at 8/4/2008 5:37:09 AM

This Post:
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40617.271 in reply to 40617.270
Date: 8/4/2008 5:37:53 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
196196
I have said over a million times now its stupid to exageratte...

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