BuzzerBeater Forums

To get the thread back to being positive, Scotland has seen a huge increase in new users lately (for Scotland anyway). We even have a full Div I now!

Last edited by ghunter at 12/3/2016 8:55:35 AM

Haggis party!

9 out of those 10 are worth that price

You should define worth. What is worth for you may not be the same as someone else.

That said, we all know that's not the real issue. In s10 the game was growing and the player you linked might have been good enough to start in D2. In s20 that was a very mediocre player because the average level of players in the game got much better. Now, partly because of a reduction in users but mostly due to deliberate choices, the average talent is reducing. This means players you would have used as backups 5 seasons ago now can legitimately be used as starters.

I very much doubt that out of 18k users you will find many that prefer a draining talent pool rather than a stable or improving one. And as always we're back to one of the most debated issues in the last 20 odd seasons: training. BBs claimed they wanted to facilitate training, but all we got was additional (subpar) options to (suboptimally) address the issue of out of position training. When is something going to change in that department? When are we going to get some tangible on training? Do we need to wait until the talent pool has worsened so much that we deem the player you showed us 'worthy' of $1.5 million again?

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/3/2016 8:46:54 PM

When you bought Tushanov and Sheppard three months ago for $1.5M+, you dediced they were worth the money you paid for them.

So you should have said market value instead of worthiness which, without further clarifications, is a completely subjective notion. Whether you can accept this or not is a different story, but it doesn't invalidate the point.

Training didn't change much and got slighthly easier, so no, it's not due to deliberate choices. Deliberate choices would reducing even more then talent pool would be to make training more difficult. No change like that happened in recent years as far as I can remember.

a) FA policy involving reducing the number of Free Agents for seasons and seasons when the numbers were collapsing = deliberate choice.
b) No increase in training speed or (meaningful) training flexibility when talent is drying up = deliberate choice.

The only thing that has been done to maintain the talent pool has been progressively increasing back the number of Free Agents from the almost no FA policy that was enacted. However, even today the criteria are likely stricter or about the same compared to when I joined 15 seasons ago (in terms of % of players joining the TL after someone quits). Because you see, the draining talent pool affects this too. Worse players on average means fewer players who qualify for free agency if the criteria stay the same.

You characterised my point as being that training got harder over the years. As everyone can tell you, in my post I never even hinted at such thing. I made the point that talent is reducing (except in bot leagues where it's always been minimal obviously) and training hasn't been changed to compensate for that. The change we got reduces the speed of training, allowing you to play a player 'less' out of position, it's placebo, it does not do anything to compensate for the loss of talent across the board.

So do you think that the market value of the guy you linked should go back to $1.5 million before you do something? Just so that we're all on the same page, because it would mean that the current skillset of a current D3 player will be enough to start in D1 when it happens...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/4/2016 8:19:42 AM

So do you think that the market value of the guy you linked should go back to $1.5 million before you do something?

I don't think so.

So hard to get a straight answer.

I made an extreme case, just as you made an extreme example. We both know the game will fold before we get to that, but the fact that former D2 players are used more and more in D1 and that D3 players are used more and more in D2 is undeniable. Ryan seem to be perfectly aware this would happen (due to user reduction, FA policy and no significant changes to draft and training) when we discussed this several seasons ago, I just want to make sure you are aware of this too.

Then if you and Marin and perhaps Foto, Nickleon and the EGMs, decide that talent reduction is good for the future of the game, fine. To me the main thing is that you guys discuss among yourselves and try to understand where things are going and hopefully make decisions based on sound reasoning to get where you want to be. This, of course, implies that you should be avoiding a simplistic approach such as: 'in the past 1.5 million was the fair market value for much worse players, therefore things are fine now', because the current situation and trends are completely different compared to 25-30 seasons ago.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/4/2016 2:11:21 PM