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Question about fouls in game

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From: CrazyEye

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98874.27 in reply to 98874.21
Date: 6/29/2009 10:38:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
thenewchuckd says that i should link the examples, last time i just take all NT matches with a thirty point point differential, and in average the teams foul more who are winning and normally they also have the much stronger rooster.

I make this quite often in the past, and the result is most times the same so maybe you watch the games here:

/BBWeb/ntmatches.aspx

Till now there was only one game which fit the requirement, but really weird for the theory that good defenders make less fouls:

(6347) 46.147(+101) Fouls: 12 : 29

But normally it isn't that extreme.

Edit: The last game day in europe ->

(97744.9)

Last edited by CrazyEye at 6/29/2009 10:44:54 AM

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This Post:
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98874.29 in reply to 98874.27
Date: 6/29/2009 1:11:05 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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It is undoubtedly the case that the team that commits more fouls has a higher chance to lose the game. Whether or not playing TIE causes you to commit more fouls is a question that doesn't have definitive answer at this point.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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98874.30 in reply to 98874.29
Date: 6/29/2009 1:18:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
in this case china has the higher chanche to loose against vietnam?

We are currently talking about another partial aspect of the game, is good defence is avoiding fouls - and there fore i would say no till it gives you some extra fouls

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98874.31 in reply to 98874.29
Date: 6/29/2009 1:28:31 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
It is undoubtedly the case that the team that commits more fouls has a higher chance to lose the game.


Actually, what Crazyeye is showing is that the team that commits more fouls has a higher chance to WIN the game. ;-)

Most (all?) of his examples are taken from NT games, though. Maybe it is just that something weird is going on with the NT games?

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
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98874.32 in reply to 98874.31
Date: 6/29/2009 1:41:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Actually, what Crazyeye is showing is that the team that commits more fouls has a higher chance to WIN the game. ;-)

No, what he's showing is that in one or two game the team that committed more fouls won the game. This is not enough to make inferences about chance.

I am making a general inference about what should be expected, in general, in games -- players in foul trouble play less efficient defense, therefore everything else being equal, it's more likely that teams with players in foul trouble will allow more points.

Note the "everything else being equal" requirement

I probably did my comment a disservice by addressing it to CrazyEye. It doesn't necessarily pertain to the games he posted.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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98874.33 in reply to 98874.32
Date: 6/29/2009 1:46:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155

No, what he's showing is that in one or two game the team that committed more fouls


Check his second link - he's actually showing 7 games, all from one NT game day in Europe. He also says that he's noticed this as a trend for NT games.

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
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98874.34 in reply to 98874.33
Date: 6/29/2009 1:51:16 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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No, what he's showing is that in one or two game the team that committed more fouls


Check his second link - he's actually showing 7 games, all from one NT game day in Europe. He also says that he's noticed this as a trend for NT games.

Gee, I suck -- I think I ignored the edit completely. I really need to have my coffee

Given that players foul like crazy when facing lucky fans (which are presumably worse than the worst players in BB), I wonder whether there is something to this observation

In the very general sense though, the logic from my message should still apply, though -- at least based on my understanding of how the GE is supposed to work.

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 6/29/2009 1:51:34 PM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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98874.35 in reply to 98874.34
Date: 6/29/2009 1:57:08 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155


Given that players foul like crazy when facing lucky fans (which are presumably worse than the worst players in BB), I wonder whether there is something to this observation


A possible explanation for that goes something like this (using my theory):

-lucky fans have the absolute worst physicality rating you could possibly have.
-lucky fans hardly ever make their shots
-opposition vs lucky fan almost always makes their shot

So lucky fans are drawing a lot of fouls because the chance to draw a foul on a missed shot is much higher.

In any case, it makes you start to wonder if good defense has any affect at all on fouls.

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
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98874.36 in reply to 98874.35
Date: 6/29/2009 2:10:20 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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All of these sound like plausible explanations.

Though I wonder how fouls work: whether a player misses a shot and the game then determines whether there was a foul on the play, or the foul is assessed at the moment where the shot is taken, and the foul just lowers the probability to score a basket.

It doesn't sound like good game design to reward players who constantly take bad (missable) shots.


"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
From: Mannen

This Post:
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98874.37 in reply to 98874.27
Date: 6/29/2009 3:52:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
7575
The what you say is true about the NT-games you posted. I took a look on you first division teams last cup games. Most of them winning by a nice margin and partialy because of nice defens (stallions excluded since not winning by big numbers).

In the games below the defensivly superior team commited less fouls.
(15069697)
(15069303)
(15069261)
(15069469)
(15069501)
(15069516)
(15069584)
(15069592)
(15069669)
(15069746)

In the games below there was quite even foul distribution (one or the other team commiting up to 2 fouls more or less then the other team)
(15069376) quite equal
(15069387)
(15069473)
(15069547)
(15069590)

In zero games did the defensivly superior team commit 3 fouls more then the other team.

I went through the matches quite quick so i might have missed something. But i think there seems to be just as easy to find games that sugests that good defenders foul less...

/Mannen
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