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Dude, you've just made the same mistake that you criticise everyone else for - I've seen managers regularly criticise you for your lack of experience and success, and you (rightly or wrongly) retaliate by saying your lack of success hasn't got relevance to your argument.

Now, you have turned around and attacked one of the most helpful and insightful managers on the forum here, accusing him of a lack of success in this one area. By your own argument, that is hypocritical and wrong, and the numbers you cite as a measure of this success are irrelevant as well.

I have a defensive big on my team, I don't care if he takes a single shot all game (in fact I hope he doesn't). He rarely gets minutes anymore because I can afford better backups, but the reason I still have him on my roster and sometimes give him 10 minutes every now and then is that he plays a role. He has strong ID, respectable in OD, passing and rebounding, and only costs me 3.6k. Bargain.

You don't show any understanding that to succeed in this game, you need all of your players to play a ROLE. Winning an MVP award on a dud team is pointless. That player Manon posted would play an awesome role, and I'd love to have someone like him any day of the week.

Okay, I tried to be quiet, but I can't.
I'm playing with outside teams for 20 seasons now. Two times I promoted with a Motion team, this season I'm playing with a RnG team and I hope I will promote again. During my Div. 2 turn I played with a Princeton team. I know exactly what kind of players every tactic needs.

You have not seen a outside big a day in your BB life.

Hmm... Surprise, I own one. And my two trainnes are two outside bigs as well.

Show me a outside big that has come from under you that has mvp. scoring title. rebound title, block title in the same seasons

That's not an outside big. That's a patient + def big. You can win the scoring title without hitting even one 3pter.

Show me a outside big that has come from under your that is hit 100+ 3pter in center and pf. in the same season.

Show me at least one Guard who did this. I have a Top 5 3pt shooter in Germany (not my league, but in the whole country) and he scored 76 3s during this season. Even for a guard it's more than hard to score such an amount.

Again you have not seen a true outside shooting big a day in your BB life.

Again, I have at least one of such bigs at my roster.

If you play an outside tactic, you want your two guards and your SF as the main scoring options. If you play Princeton than the PF will take the place of one of the others. In my team the PF replaced the PG as a scorer.
But most of the time your bigs are only a supporting cast. They defend (OD, ID and SB), they rebound (RB) and they pass and handle the ball (PA and HA). That's it. A outside big with high JS would only take unnecessary shots. And these shots will be taken away from your main scorers. That's contraproductive. You don't believe me? This guy (23545608) is a horrible offensive player. But he is a defensive force like you never saw one in this game. He has almost the same amount of blocks as points per game. Unfortunately he capped long time ago and his passing is weak. But all in all, he is an outside big. He supports my scorers with a tremendous inside defense and good rebounding. And the engine is on his side. He ranked third in the MVP ballot this season. He was one of the reasons why I ranked first in defense. This guy alone forces my opponets to doubt if they can play LI against me or not.
I saw Manons players and I talked with him about SB and his idea about outside bigs and I totally agree with him.

Until you show some facts here, and with facts I mean calculations, players data and games, I would recommend you to listen to managers who know what they do. Have a nice day.

Last edited by Nachtmahr at 10/6/2014 4:45:10 AM

If you play an outside tactic, you want your two guards and your SF as the main scoring options. If you play Princeton than the PF will take the place of one of the others. In my team the PF replaced the PG as a scorer.
But most of the time your bigs are only a supporting cast. They defend (OD, ID and SB), they rebound (RB) and they pass and handle the ball (PA and HA). That's it. A outside big with high JS would only take unnecessary shots. And these shots will be taken away from your main scorers. That's contraproductive.

I think it's depending on how you define high. I do know when I run Princeton (which, sadly, I find that GDP is making me hesitant to do), if my opponent is playing M2M I'd much rather let one of my bigs take a contested three point shot against one of their bigs than to see my under-JR'd guards/SF try to beat the OD of my opponent's guys. And I'm talking like 11 JS/8JR and 9+_/8++ JS/JR on the two bigs (the other's only got 7/5 because I drafted him). I agree that what Mr. G is talking about does sound like patient forwards and I'm not sure I'd push for that either, but I just wanted to provide one experienced counter-example of someone who would love his PF to shoot more from three. Other than the abomination that was this year, for example, Cheek has been consistently above 30% from three since he actually transitioned to PF/C.
(http://www.buzzerbeater.com/player/23475097/careerstats.a...)

You don't need it for outside tactics as much as much we all or you may think you do. Bigs should not be driving the ball period in out side shots tactics nor handling it much. If anything they should have some passing and stepping to shoot, outside shots uncontested ( jr/js). Passing and team flow is the key to outside tactics.

The pg/ sg/ sf do all the handling and also driving if they have to. This would create points. Team work flow. A outside big is much differ than a inside big. They are not built the same. Nor should be trained in the same fashion.

You can have a balance big but he will be basic. Not a pure out side big for the tactics played.. Easy answer for 3-2 zone is . Get a beastly a Sf or a guard duo. Player Role play if will. 3-2 ne can be carved if you have the right player and right type of outside big. To many people scoring at will, to much ball movement. Then the defense has to worry about fouls.. I think Sb 8/9 is good enough, I wouldn't get 10+ or better, it seems to bring more fouls.

Turnovers is going too happens this why good guard play or Sf play is very, very important. Its the fouls and missed shots the hurt the most.

The problem with trying to beat 3-2 with a "beastly" SG/SF duo is that as you get into higher competition, the costs ramp up dramatically more in salary for more JS/JR for an SG/SF salary formula than they do for more OD in a guy in the LI PG mold. Plus, you tend to find fewer teams that will play a 3-2 with aa PF with no OD at SF, since they know that those players will be torched. Plus, if you want to look at the training side, it takes a lot longer to raise a level of JR plus a level of JS than it does to train a level of OD.

Just keep in mind that even in Motion/R&G/Princeton, there are a lot of inside/driving shots attempted still. Against a zone, those might be almost the best (except for the ones where the PF/C is guarding a mid-range jumper by one of your scorers).

A role where?? on your team. But not on mines. No sir.!! if we talking about he highest level Os . He no where near good enough for what I would want or would need.. 4 tactics,, not just built as OS. but 4 tactic build as outs ide shooter. Huge difference there.

I have not disrespected anyone.? Where is any disrespect?

Some of you guys are blinded to seeing IS shooting big you don't know what a os shooting big should look like to play 4 tactics of Os and be effective Nt merits be damned.. You cant flop a player down and think all is well. Level of play means nothing in this debate. How does it hinder to know how tactic work and should play and the player role in highest level.? How does it hinder anything. We are talking about the highest level of play not div 4.

If you put the player b in b3 in outside tactics he would get crushed.!!! period end of discussion.!! I don't need to make b3 or nbba to know , My eye's work damn fine ,nothing wrong with "live game" function to my understanding. my note are the same notes everyones takes down, I don't know if games are vanishing from the logs as we speak. please inform me. sir.. But in all seriousness he is not strong enough for the highest level of play to play 4 os tactic and be effective. If this was the case then why player A much better.?

winning mvp with a bench player regardless of league is hard work and getting to make 100 3 pter in same season is even harder work.. I don't care what you say or think.. You do next season if it so easy!!. I have done it in my BB life span. 4 scoring titles as well 3 differ players.

Advancing leagues and all that is fine and dandy, but the tactic's never will change. What the player should be will never change either. Again show hows that false.? Show me how I its disrespectful to state the already known.

Last edited by Mr. Glass at 10/6/2014 6:08:37 PM

lol yes he does need 25 ppg a night . I set that trap for you and you bit the apple, he may get a bid but it wont be playing os tactics from the team that buy him. The BB world mind frame don't work like that.

Ok here's a OS shooting big, it just wont happen if this is case where are they to buy? where or like him on the market. I rest my case.

Okay, you don't know what you are talking about. Have a nice night sir. No more responses from me.

I've been reading this thread for some time and I find most suggestions about the huge drop in teams at BB very interesting. However, I doubt the lack of an app, taxes or tactics are really the main culprits in the dwindling numbers. I believe that the lack of advertising has led to a reduced number of new owners, but there must be something else about the game that is driving players away.

This is just speculation on my part, but my gut tells me that the vast majority of quitters are not long-time veteran players, but those who have played the game for about 1 to 3 seasons. Only the BB Gods can confirm or refute that speculation, but for the moment, that's what I believe. So, if I'm correct, the OET or the strength of LI vs. all other tactics probably isn't the main reason why these players are quitting.

It's because it's nearly impossible for new owners to improve their teams quickly.

A quick history lesson for you newer players. When I started playing this game (Season 11), all free agents entered the market with a minimum bid of $1000. Later, BB changed that to 10 times a free agent's weekly salary. (A free agent with a $10,000 salary would have a minimum bid of $100,000) Several seasons later, BB announced that lower-salaried free agents would no longer be included in the PM. I don't remember the threshold for inclusion in the PM, but it seems like it was different for different positions and it seems like it was in the $20,000 to $25,000 range. So, any potential free agent with a salary below those thresholds does not become available on the PM.

Before I started writing this, I went back and looked at my transfer history. When I promoted to Div. IV, I went out and bought four new players on the PM with salaries between $10,000 and $20,000 within 30 days (RT). I paid less than a million for all four together. I did not pay $300,000 for any of them. All were 24 years old or less. None were free agents. Because all free agents were included in the PM, player costs were far lower than what they are today. Without the free agents, costs for lower-salaried players have skyrocketed due to no competition.

Today, if you search on the PM for 24-year-old or less players with a salary of $10,000 to $20,000 and a maximum bid of $300,000 you will find a total of 41 players. And how many teams are about to promote for the first time? Hundreds? More than a 1000? Now, you can go search for players and find many, many more players available in that age and salary range. And most of them have starting bids of $600,000, $750,000, a million or even higher. How many newly promoted Div. IV teams have that kind of money?

They don't. So I believe many relatively new owners are becoming frustrated and giving up. Heck, even trying to build a team with old guys is becoming difficult because many of the Utopian teams are willing to overspend on old guys to win quickly. And BTW, this is the only effect Utopia has had on the PM. Very few Utopian teams are spending money on young guys because many don't have the millions it takes to get those players. Half of the Utopian teams in my league have invested in 30-somethings in order to win quickly. Also this problem with the lack of free agents pre-dates Utopia; prices were skyrocketing before Utopia was even proposed.

So my suggestion to stop the bleeding is to rescind the rule that restricts lower-salaried free agents from the Player Market. An influx of lower-salaried free agents will allow newer owners a better opportunity to acquire players that will help them improve their teams and keep their interest in BuzzerBeater longer.

Last edited by Bucfan at 10/7/2014 11:42:05 AM