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well he did provide arguments... he said that support 4 good inside players and good guards to provide offensive flow for those inside players is way more expensive than having an outside team.

I believe I said that those kind of teams are, likely, going to loose many games. Just like those teams with 4 four expensive good outside players (of 150k each, just like 4 good inside players) with big mens having good rebounds.

Then, was it a really efective argument in the discussion of "inside vs outside"??

he said that training secondaries for big men are more complicated than training guards, because inside player training does not train secondary skills like for example pressure trains OD and a little ID, but ID training does not train OD. so inside team has more trouble to be competitive and it does not have rewards. i think that is what he is trying to prove.

I believe this is not true at all. You can train driving and JS in a very easy way for your C by making them play as PF. Just like an outside player can but his PG as SG to train JR in 1 position. Plus, it is really easy to train RB to inside man, while is not to train it for PG and SG.

Training IS to a SG it is a pain. Because you really have to wait a lot of time to get a secondary pop by training it with shoting for SF and PF.

And I can continue to do this with more examples. My point is, trainig secondaries is difficult for everyone. It is hard to train inside skills for outside players and it is hard to train outside skills for inside players. And it should be that way.

from my point of view... i also train big men. i do win games in my league, but i also see that training guards would be easier. you just need to train jumpshot as a wingmen to get additional pops in inside shot, for ID i allready mentioned it earlier. and... try to train big men in passing and handling (which imho are important skills, because higher handling/passing big players do less turnovers). not only you will have height penalty but also you'll sacrifice possibly easy wins, because you will have to put your clumsy big mens at pg positions :). there's a lot of other reasons (like the offensive flow), and i am changing my trainees from next season to guards... i agree with johnnyb on this.

You should do as you please. And probably switching over time between training outside players and inside ones is for sure very good developing strategy, so you can stop having in your mind the "Inside Team vs Outside Team" and start having the "Basketball Team" instead of it.

I don't understand...So how exactly those so called balanced players gona help in inside game and basicly we should make a SF team.
What about mighty avengers two nt level centers and nt level pg still can't win a game...so what players you must have to win in inside game???Two Cardenas and a 200k salary pg??? The balanced players debate is crap imo,although i agree on balanced sf's,but other positions is a waste of time execpt passing on centers...Lets see on real life examples: Shaq is one of greatest centers of all time who still throws bricks outside of the painted area,same with Howard.But most of the centers were good passers,shaq avg.~3 assists,chamberlain even lead the league in assists.
Also pg is not most important man in inside game,but it seems it is in here after reading all those posts....
Parker doesn't need to give ball to Duncan when he's in perfect position to score since Duncan needs to get the ball near paint and does all the work in there...Same with shaq
All in all i don't think it's even worth discussing since it all comes down to "balanced" players or flow etc.
and yeah i always thought there was PG,SG,SF,PF,C for a reason to do his work on court,not SG doing C work or other way around etc.
But that is my philosophy or i just dont understand basketball at all now.

What about mighty avengers two nt level centers and nt level pg still can't win a game...so what players you must have to win in inside game??

What would you say if Dembe loss, 4 NT player and one pretty more NT like Shooting guard can win games. Sorry Denker isn't a NT PG anymore, and he even don't have any backup.

I recently notice that LI is pretty strong strategy just take a look onto my last game -> (19973169), and in this case i had the better players and his motivation couldn't be much higher then mine(i got ten) ;)

Your team should consist of SF-s with different emphasis on different positions. You need a SF with better inside skills on C and PF positions, SF with better outside skills on PG and SG positions. I can name atleast 4 players from USA national team that can practically play any position -> C.Anthony, K.Bryant, L.James, D.Wade. There are also a lot of big men that can shoot it from behind the arc. Also a lot of pg-s that score most of their points in the paint. Just gimme a team with those 4 + nowitzki and I have a perfect SF team!

While i agree with kausasas i can accept that bb has the rules that apply on and they are deferent that the real basketball. I can accept that we have to train more balanced big men.

Indeed they are very few out there, but why? because they can train all they need without changing positions. why we dont see so many balanced big men?(you can find many versatile guards, for sure much more than bigs) because its so hard to do it. I bet that if you give us the chance to train passing at least for forwards you will see that many managers will start to train it as they train JS. Put on the account that 6'10+ players are getting trained so slowly on the guard skills, and when they came out of the draft usually very poor guard skills and you will find out why they are not so many.

You know is painful to watch your rival that trains guards wining champions at the time that you put your 7'0 C to play PG just to train his passing, and i am not sure how many managers are willing to do it.

I am not expecting major changes on the game engine and i am sure that on the lab worked perfectly. What you have overlook its how we create those versatile big men? Whats the cost for it? So i think that some tweaking on what we can train for big men (PA for forwards for example, and keep the training speed same)it will helps greatly to see much more versatile big men, therefore less protest about the subject that we are talking. Else i cant see how this will change any time soon. I think that i am suggesting something very reasonable.

What about mighty avengers two nt level centers and nt level pg still can't win a game...so what players you must have to win in inside game??

What would you say if Dembe loss, 4 NT player and one pretty more NT like Shooting guard can win games. Sorry Denker isn't a NT PG anymore, and he even don't have any backup.

I recently notice that LI is pretty strong strategy just take a look onto my last game -> (19973169), and in this case i had the better players and his motivation couldn't be much higher then mine(i got ten) ;)

Who is denker ???i wasn't talking about him...Hmm Dembe doesn't have backups either...
Wow! one game makes you think that LI is strong strategy :/
AND i still fail to understand how balanced centers are gona help in inside game,do they start jumpshotting and turning game into outside game???huh???

What about mighty avengers two nt level centers and nt level pg still can't win a game...so what players you must have to win in inside game??

What would you say if Dembe loss, 4 NT player and one pretty more NT like Shooting guard can win games. Sorry Denker isn't a NT PG anymore, and he even don't have any backup.

I recently notice that LI is pretty strong strategy just take a look onto my last game -> (19973169), and in this case i had the better players and his motivation couldn't be much higher then mine(i got ten) ;)

Who is denker ???i wasn't talking about him...Hmm Dembe doesn't have backups either...
Wow! one game makes you think that LI is strong strategy :/
AND i still fail to understand how balanced centers are gona help in inside game,do they start jumpshotting and turning game into outside game???huh???

Denker was his PG, you mentioned.

No one games make you think, it is impossible to build a inside game succesfull ;)(in your eyes it must be that succesfull that a great outside game get wasted even with homecourt) I know plenty of succesfull inside games, but this one was the most recent and one that shows the options of it very good.

For me also inmbalanced center are good enough especially for Inside game(passing is always nice, and the JS of my center helps me often but mostly in outside games) - but if you have it brings something.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/22/2010 7:40:58 AM

AND i still fail to understand how balanced centers are gona help in inside game,do they start jumpshotting and turning game into outside game???huh???

I think there's three major things at play here:
1) In a LI/LP offense the PF and C take a lot of short range jump shots where JS may be a significant factor.
2) In order to get a good shot you need high flow. High PS/HN in your big men help contribute to this and produce better shots/few turnovers.
3) If your centre has the ball and someone with good defense is on him and he has high inside shot but low secondaries he has only two options: take a shot or turn the ball over. These leads to a fair number of bad shots. If he has high secondaries then he can opt to dribble out of the situation or pass to a player in a better position if he is presented with a bad shot.

1.What do you call short range jumpers?if inside painted area i thought inside shot handled this...also i don't want my center taking jumpshots in inside game
2.I thought that pg,sg,sf only contributed to flow...on the other hand i agree with passing on centers,but handling is just useless.
3.Agreed on some parts.
To crazyeye:i was talking about the chilean pg.
But still the salary diffirence between outside team and inside team is huge,to play inside game at high levels(BBB or Div 1) you must have monster centers,pg and good sg,sf,meanwhile playing outside is diffirent you can have defensive centers whose wages are not 200k and you dont need 150k sg's.

Last edited by kausasas at 1/22/2010 2:29:46 PM