BuzzerBeater Forums

As for training, I'd seriously suggest you guys who are worried about it to make an informal brainstorming group, if it's possible. I can honestly say I'm quite sure a good proposal would come from it.

There is and never was a lack of proposals, but there is a lack of "resources" (whatever that means in that context).

personally I'm tired of this near chaos in the forums

Then, as I said, let's remove the threads and let's see these manager numbers flourish again!

Btw groups like that would not be representative of the whole community and also it may be just a waste of time, since it is clear from Devs' attitude towards criticism and suggestions that they are not very tolerant or open to discussions. Hence there are 3 paths to this:
- keep going with the request that the Devs care for the game's growth (and I disagree with Trainerman and his praise of what's been done in the last few seasons as I think that's insufficient by any standard)
- quit, as tens of thousands did in the past, including Trainerman himself
- just stop caring, like a few (top level) managers whose name used to pop up a lot in the past and are completely absent today

The reason for this hard line stance is that I do enjoy BB for what it is - a game of dedicated long term planning. But if the game which I love will surely go to hell, yeah I'd like something close to it and with the name BB.

So where would you draw the line in order to be able to compromise?

Last edited by Lemonshine at 7/8/2015 1:15:11 PM

No. I think the training is fine as it is. More complicated training would create imbalance...
At the moment, I feel we are nearing a balanced relation between necessity of training and necessity of buying in order to be competitive.

I thought you wanted a challenge to keep the game interesting...was I mistaken? What does buying has to do with how challenging training is?

Even as a beginner, I had no problem with the way training is set. Au contraire, I felt it is to my advantage - it's really easy to train OOP in a half-bot league and still have good results, even with limited resources.

First of all new managers need to understand how it works. Maybe GM-Jason remembers, maybe not, but I did email him questions about how the training worked back in the day. After they understand they need to decide whether to put up with it or not. And if they decide to, they may still be unhappy about it.

Honestly speaking, I don't fancy this kool-aid that this system is the best of possible systems. If you like the challenge and you think challenge is what keeps 20k managers going, then let's increase the challenge. More difficult training = more profit to be made by training, in time.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 7/8/2015 1:06:46 PM

If some that me stepping away would help, I would do it

You know it's not you I'm referring to, Perpete. In fact without you exactly what kind of "official" voice would we have? You're simply in an awkward position because you engage with the userbase, but don't have the mandate or inside-knowledge to speak for the devs. Why is a figure like BB-Charles used to be no longer deemed to be useful or necessary?

Last edited by Lemonshine at 7/8/2015 2:41:39 PM

1) I don't advocate shutting down discussions;

I say move them where people can't see them!

Instead of this, I proposed a focused discussion after

I was not sure what you meant by that. Frankly the options have been presented and discussed over and over and over, but it's not known how the Devs feel about the current state of things and what their plans are. Maybe we will get another surprise out of the blue in the next offseason, who knows.

So it seems that you would rather....well, what? Whine and insinuate people (for your reading skills - me, right in this thread, for instance) are either too stupid to take the long term view or that they're disinterested in that and are selfish GM's and BB's goons?

I sure don't believe people are too stupid to think about long term and on a general basis, but if people tell me that the current system suit them and what they look for in the game, how am I supposed to jump to the conclusion that they are talking in more general terms about the whole community or the future of the game?

Perhaps you should focus your analysis on how the current training system does help the game grow/get better/gain more users or makes logical sense for a basketball simulation, rather than saying I'm personally happy with it? Maybe you could say that the current state of the game is nearly perfect and try to explain people why that it is. Then I would immediately understand that you're making a general point and looking a the game and community as a whole.

That being so, it's a ridiculous idea to impute the notion that these groups would be representative to me.

I was just noting that there is a fundamental flaw in that approach and that it would not necessarily yield any better results or better ideas that have already been put forward. "focus group -> sets of proposals -> discussion -> polls." I suppose we could give this a go, after all I'm a huge fan of polls, but it will likely amount to wasted effort when we don't have any input on what is on the devs' agenda and on how things are supposed to work in the game. There is no sense of direction whatsoever. There is people panicking because the numbers are low, there are people who don't care because they like the game as is and would be cool even if it had fewer users, but nobody knows if there is a plan and what the plan is.

My main concern is that they focus the resources they have to release an app when there are several areas of the game who are difficult to grasp, understand and accept as a new user or even as a basketball/GM simulation game fan. People who say I personally like the game challenging as it is are clearly not contributing anything in that respect. Perhaps others are just happy with the current number of users, with the current training and economy and you don't care if 20 or 40 nations disappear, I'm not.

And again, if you or someone else think a good way forward is to create additional challenges or complexity, because that's what glue users to this game, then, by all means, try to sell people this on the forums and hope that it has a positive effect on the game. I'm not saying this in a sarcastic way. I don't think that will work, but I would be thrilled to see someone succeeding at that.

Forgetting the bears for a second, when is the last time you've seen the bulls out in mass in Global Forums praising the quirks and challenges of the game and telling everyone why they should love the game as it is? Probably you fellas should contribute that if you think that would help going forward.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 7/8/2015 2:58:24 PM