BuzzerBeater Forums

US High School Basketball = Best young NBA players?

What does that show...? European professional basketball is of a MUCH higher calibre than US high school basketball....it's not at all unheard of for the US team to get beaten on an International level.

I don't think you can group all US high school basketball into a single bucket. There are some prep schools and AAU teams that have 2-5 players that will be playing High-Major college ball in 1-2 years and will be in the NBA in 2-3 years.

There are also international players from Europe and elsewhere that struggle to get minutes for college teams in the states.

Your statement may in general be true, but if you look at the high schools/prep schools producing many or the NBA players, you'll find an amazing amount of talent concentrated there.


Steve

I don't think you can group all US high school basketball into a single bucket. There are some prep schools and AAU teams that have 2-5 players that will be playing High-Major college ball in 1-2 years and will be in the NBA in 2-3 years.

There are also international players from Europe and elsewhere that struggle to get minutes for college teams in the states.

Your statement may in general be true, but if you look at the high schools/prep schools producing many or the NBA players, you'll find an amazing amount of talent concentrated there.

Agreed. I'm referring to European professional teams, not European individual players on US college teams, nor individual players on a player-by-player basis for comparison...

A few thoughts (all my opinions):

To artyx: Thank you! You were the first one who actually took the time to look at the game in question and explain how it was actually possible to lose this game.

To those citing real life games in the past as proof that upsets are possible: Please, stop. It doesn't help the discussion, especially when you just put up a like to a wikipedia page as a response. All it does it show off your basketball knowledge or ability to use Google, it doesn't make the guy who started his thread feel any better, or learn anything, about his loss.

If you guys want to talk real life basketball, I'm all for it, but it belongs in non-BB forums, not as a witty retort to a guy who's looking for answers.

To Juicepats: Take a step back, please, and think before you type I was surprised when reading through this thread at your responses and how extremely un-helpful they were. When you say things that are essentially "upsets happen, deal with it" to a guy who's looking for help, it doesn't make you look very good, and it doesn't help anyone.

This kind of attitude is not the same platform you used when you were running for USA NT coach - you promised to help foster training and the game itself, and I'd hate to think that those were false promises. I know you don't get paid to do this or anything, but you're still a GM, and you are the face of BB authority to many people, so dismissive responses to questions is probably not the best bet if you want BB to grow and prosper.

To Juicepats: Take a step back, please, and think before you type I was surprised when reading through this thread at your responses and how extremely un-helpful they were. When you say things that are essentially "upsets happen, deal with it" to a guy who's looking for help, it doesn't make you look very good, and it doesn't help anyone.

This kind of attitude is not the same platform you used when you were running for USA NT coach - you promised to help foster training and the game itself, and I'd hate to think that those were false promises. I know you don't get paid to do this or anything, but you're still a GM, and you are the face of BB authority to many people, so dismissive responses to questions is probably not the best bet if you want BB to grow and prosper.

The two points I was trying to make is that:

A. It's not impossible for a team to lose any game, real life or BB. The original poster seemed to intimate it is.

B. Any comparison to the Pistons vs a high school team (a favorite of the OP) is fatally flawed.

Was I a bit heavy-handed in my responses? Probably, and I shouldn't have. I get irritated, however, when someone basically says that loss = game sucks. That doesn't seem to be looking for help to me.

A. It's not impossible for a team to lose any game, real life or BB. The original poster seemed to intimate it is.

Actually, I don't think he did. His initial post was asking for someone to explain to him how he lost. A direct quote of his second post:

I'm not complaining about losing to a worse team - that's realism.

I'm complaining about dominating the game on every level and STILL losing, even though the bot team is two levels below me, has a terrible team, and was outplayed in every facet.

He was absolutely looking for help, and he never said that "loss = game sucks". When he asked why he lost and your response was simply "random factor," it's a pretty logical jump for him to think the only reason he lost was because of intentional randomness in the game, which is obviously frustrating.

Actually, I don't think he did. His initial post was asking for someone to explain to him how he lost. A direct quote of his second post:

Then why say:

This is like the Celtics losing a tight game to a high school team,even though in the GAME they played like the Celtics and the highschool team played like a high school team.

This isn't a 'random factor', this is ridiculous.

The attitude certainly seems to indicate that the OP felt that he should never lose a game like this.

He was absolutely looking for help, and he never said that "loss = game sucks".

That's what he seems to be saying here:

This game needs a LOT of growing up to do before it comes close to being realistic...

That's little more than a potshot based on flawed logic.

Would someone like to explain to me how I lost my cup game yesterday to a bot two levels under me, when I dominated every aspect of the game?

got a little bit lucky with 3p....got reallativy lots of FT...

His comparison to a high school team only came after your flippant response about random factor. In his eyes, his loss equated to something that should never happen, but instead of trying to explain to him why it could, like 1) divisions don't matter right now b/c the game is so new 2) you had a lot of turnovers 3) did you TIE?, etc, you just said "it's random, that's part of the game."

I'd be frustrated too if I was him. To be a new user and come to the global conf looking for help and get continued dismissive responses from a GM had to be very frustrating for him, so I understand why he made his "potshot based on flawed logic." But it never would have come about had you taken the time to give him a proper answer in the first place. My point is, you never went out of your way to explain yourself properly. I know you have more BB knowledge than "random factor" so why not use it to help people?

You want to know why I responded why I responded?

There seem to be a million "how did I loose?!?!??!" threads around, it gets frustrating. The easiest (not the best in some cases) answer is to remind people that there is indeed a random factor.

Could I have given a more in-depth answer? Sure. Should I have? Yes.

I'm only human, though, and every post I make isn't going to be 100% the best I can do, although that is definitely the goal.

When it comes down to it, "random factor" IS the correct answer. It's just not, in this case, probably the best answer/

For what its worth, what I've learned about BuzzerBeater in the one month I've been playing is that the variance in team quality right now is narrow. That is, compared to say, Hattrick where team quality runs the full spectrum of talent from A to F, BuzzerBeater currently runs from D- to D+, a very narrow band.

As the seasons progress, BB teams will progress up the scale, filling in C, B, and finally A.

This means that currently the narrow band of talent, when combined with random numbers, pretty much guarantees that the D+ teams in DII will lose to D- teams from DIV quite often.

Also, the talent level of the players on the current National Teams is very poor compared to the planned level of talent that will evolve over time. Comparing NBA talent to the talent currently on the rosters of National Teams is not right. Indeed, it so flawed its not even a good enough theory to be wrong.

Put another way, putting a Pistons jersey on the Longwood College team does not make them the Pistons. They will still have only a better than even chance to beat VMI or Radford. And no one should be shocked if VMI or Radford wins.

It will be several seasons (I don't know how many, of course) before BB reaches Final Four talent levels, and a few more before it reaches a consistent level of producing NBA quality players.