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Soft cap.

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84203.29 in reply to 84203.24
Date: 4/6/2009 3:16:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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This does make sense, but I dont realy like it.

Lets say that a SG is capped at 15 in all guard skills and a center at whatever (i have no idea since i dont have this kind of players) for the same potential.

Then for training the optimal player i need to stop training him in outside skills at 14 in one skill and push his inside skills until the centercap hits him.

Ok, this is just an example. I know there are 3 other caps (maybe) that he might hit on his way. And all skills might influence all softcaps, just more or less, so he still hits the SG cap before the center. But the logic still holds that there are a point when you have to change the training, and one training too much might ruin the player ;)

Cap does not work this way -- it's a salary limit, not a skill limit. There is no such thing as a "guard cap" or "center cap" -- there is one cap that can be reached by training different combinations of skills.

You do know that you contradict yourself, right? Since you say its based on salary, there are "5 ways" to calculate salary and the above then stands.

As a whole, your argument is quite confusing.

You talk about "center cap" by which you probably mean "a combination of skills for the center position which will put you over the potential cap". However, the assumption that there are 5 ways to reach the cap is erroneous -- there is an infinite amount of ways to reach the cap, given that even within positions, you can train different skills to get to where you want to go.

Either way, what does "training the optimal player" even means? If I understand your argument, you're trying to train as much skills as you can before capping out. However, if we view a player as having primary position skills, and other skills, it's theoretically always possible to train 1 less level of a primary skill to get extra secondaries, which doesn't necessarily make the player any less perfect.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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84203.30 in reply to 84203.28
Date: 4/6/2009 3:17:29 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Okay, sure. Are you saying that all 6.0 potential players cap at 50k or so? and sublevels change the cap.

I just don't think it is based on position

This Post:
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84203.31 in reply to 84203.20
Date: 4/6/2009 3:19:02 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
224224
so why are guardskills for the cap of the center so unimportant?

How important a skill is has little to do with how salary is calculated.

i don't believe that a aless trained guardskill is so unimportant for a guard, so i expect that respectable JS makes more different for a "only PG" then for a Center. So why it makes you so sure that this theory is wrong?

I don't know what theory you have in mind. Potential is based on salary, not directly on skill level -- and this is 100% true unless you have some reason to believe the game developpers are lying to all of us.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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84203.32 in reply to 84203.31
Date: 4/6/2009 3:23:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
they never said that is it exactly the same formula and in my experienced blocking is more important for potential then for salary for a center ;)

And why you are saying that there are no different ways for guards, centers etc. for potential when you also say that is the salary formula, which is specific for all positions?

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84203.33 in reply to 84203.32
Date: 4/6/2009 3:25:59 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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they never said that is it exactly the same formula and in my experienced blocking is more important for potential then for salary for a center ;)

I can tell you with almost complete certainty that your experience is wrong.

And why you are saying that there are no different ways for guards, centers etc. for potential when you also say that is the salary formula, which is specific for all positions?

The potential cap is just a number, and it's always the same regardless of position. Therefore, the concept of "center cap" is devoid of any meaning.


Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 4/6/2009 3:26:58 PM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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84203.34 in reply to 84203.33
Date: 4/6/2009 3:30:39 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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and i can tell you with almost complete certainly the same ;)

And salary isn't the same for every position, so even with your only salary theory, there are different caps for PG and Center skill wise ;) With lot of rebound training he reach the cap for centers first, he can not unluck it in switching to PF but with JS training it won't get worse., till he get a PF(when he training him as a guar so he don't get IS training)

This Post:
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84203.35 in reply to 84203.34
Date: 4/6/2009 3:35:50 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
224224
and i can tell you with almost complete certainly the same ;)

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. I am not going to argue with you.

And salary isn't the same for every position, so even with your only salary theory, there are different caps for PG and Center skill wise ;)

There is an infinite number of skill combinations that can cap you out. I guess that makes for an "infinite number of caps skill wise", the way you're wording it.

What exactly is your point anyhow?



Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 4/6/2009 3:36:45 PM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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84203.36 in reply to 84203.35
Date: 4/6/2009 3:38:43 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
There is an infinite number of skill combinations that can cap you out. What exactly is your point?


and all these infinite solutions(who currently aren't infinite, if you think about it), are calculated on different ways for the positions - so i said your answer is wrong even with your theory that they aren't different cap fornmulas for centers/guards etc.

This Post:
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84203.37 in reply to 84203.36
Date: 4/6/2009 3:53:52 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
224224
There is an infinite number of skill combinations that can cap you out. What exactly is your point?


and all these infinite solutions(who currently aren't infinite, if you think about it), are calculated on different ways for the positions - so i said your answer is wrong even with your theory that they aren't different cap fornmulas for centers/guards etc.

Actually, the solutions are infinite, since skills levels are real numbers -- maybe you should think about it instead...

What is a "cap formula" anyway?

(Just for the record, I don't have a "theory" about how potential works -- I actually bothered to read the information offered by BB-Charles in the forums when potentials were introduced, and it was pretty clear -- potential is a single value which should be though of as a salary limit, and given that there are multiple ways to add salary, there are multiple ways to reach one's potential)

edit: For details, see (29708.11). I have other work to do now.

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 4/6/2009 3:59:08 PM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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84203.38 in reply to 84203.37
Date: 4/6/2009 4:24:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
Actually, the solutions are infinite, since skills levels are real numbers -- maybe you should think about it instead...


real numbers on the pc, are you kidding ;) You could be happy about 64 Bit numbers, but i would expect 32 or 16.

What is a "cap formula" anyway?


the formula who determines if a player reach a cap or not, or how much the cap is working ;) In your case, the 5 salary formulas, in my theory 5 slightly different formulas.

Just for the record, I don't have a "theory" about how potential works -- I actually bothered to read the information offered by BB-Charles in the forums when potentials were introduced, and it was pretty clear


this still work with a slightly different formula then the salary one, it is an approximation and i watxch the progress of many all star centers to get to a point where i expect a differen with josef KA formula from 5k where the first skillup get missed betwenn centers with blocking and the ones without ;)

A clear statement looks another way in my eyes, maybe i am wrong maybe i am not.

This Post:
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84203.39 in reply to 84203.31
Date: 4/6/2009 6:30:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
9191
I have been following this post for a few days now, finding it very interesting. When I got to this post the handle I had on this subject flew out the window. My post is not meant to argue with you at all, I merely would like to address this post below with some questions in hopes of better understanding the subject matter.

so why are guardskills for the cap of the center so unimportant?

How important a skill is has little to do with how salary is calculated.

i don't believe that a aless trained guardskill is so unimportant for a guard, so i expect that respectable JS makes more different for a "only PG" then for a Center. So why it makes you so sure that this theory is wrong?

I don't know what theory you have in mind. Potential is based on salary, not directly on skill level -- and this is 100% true unless you have some reason to believe the game developpers are lying to all of us.


1. Is Salary based on skill level? If so then isnt Potential also a representation of skill level?

2. If a player changes position from a pop, isnt his 'hidden' salary changed due to certain skills being more important to his new position than his old, and vice versa?

3. I have read that the position is determined by highest salary among the 5 for the specific person. Doesnt this suggest that the salary hit for position skill is higher than for a non-postion skill? If so then wouldnt pops be wieghted by position/non position skill concerning salary?

Again, not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

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