BuzzerBeater Forums

While i agree with kausasas i can accept that bb has the rules that apply on and they are deferent that the real basketball. I can accept that we have to train more balanced big men.

Indeed they are very few out there, but why? because they can train all they need without changing positions. why we dont see so many balanced big men?(you can find many versatile guards, for sure much more than bigs) because its so hard to do it. I bet that if you give us the chance to train passing at least for forwards you will see that many managers will start to train it as they train JS. Put on the account that 6'10+ players are getting trained so slowly on the guard skills, and when they came out of the draft usually very poor guard skills and you will find out why they are not so many.

You know is painful to watch your rival that trains guards wining champions at the time that you put your 7'0 C to play PG just to train his passing, and i am not sure how many managers are willing to do it.

I am not expecting major changes on the game engine and i am sure that on the lab worked perfectly. What you have overlook its how we create those versatile big men? Whats the cost for it? So i think that some tweaking on what we can train for big men (PA for forwards for example, and keep the training speed same)it will helps greatly to see much more versatile big men, therefore less protest about the subject that we are talking. Else i cant see how this will change any time soon. I think that i am suggesting something very reasonable.

What about mighty avengers two nt level centers and nt level pg still can't win a game...so what players you must have to win in inside game??

What would you say if Dembe loss, 4 NT player and one pretty more NT like Shooting guard can win games. Sorry Denker isn't a NT PG anymore, and he even don't have any backup.

I recently notice that LI is pretty strong strategy just take a look onto my last game -> (19973169), and in this case i had the better players and his motivation couldn't be much higher then mine(i got ten) ;)

Who is denker ???i wasn't talking about him...Hmm Dembe doesn't have backups either...
Wow! one game makes you think that LI is strong strategy :/
AND i still fail to understand how balanced centers are gona help in inside game,do they start jumpshotting and turning game into outside game???huh???

What about mighty avengers two nt level centers and nt level pg still can't win a game...so what players you must have to win in inside game??

What would you say if Dembe loss, 4 NT player and one pretty more NT like Shooting guard can win games. Sorry Denker isn't a NT PG anymore, and he even don't have any backup.

I recently notice that LI is pretty strong strategy just take a look onto my last game -> (19973169), and in this case i had the better players and his motivation couldn't be much higher then mine(i got ten) ;)

Who is denker ???i wasn't talking about him...Hmm Dembe doesn't have backups either...
Wow! one game makes you think that LI is strong strategy :/
AND i still fail to understand how balanced centers are gona help in inside game,do they start jumpshotting and turning game into outside game???huh???

Denker was his PG, you mentioned.

No one games make you think, it is impossible to build a inside game succesfull ;)(in your eyes it must be that succesfull that a great outside game get wasted even with homecourt) I know plenty of succesfull inside games, but this one was the most recent and one that shows the options of it very good.

For me also inmbalanced center are good enough especially for Inside game(passing is always nice, and the JS of my center helps me often but mostly in outside games) - but if you have it brings something.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/22/2010 7:40:58 AM

AND i still fail to understand how balanced centers are gona help in inside game,do they start jumpshotting and turning game into outside game???huh???

I think there's three major things at play here:
1) In a LI/LP offense the PF and C take a lot of short range jump shots where JS may be a significant factor.
2) In order to get a good shot you need high flow. High PS/HN in your big men help contribute to this and produce better shots/few turnovers.
3) If your centre has the ball and someone with good defense is on him and he has high inside shot but low secondaries he has only two options: take a shot or turn the ball over. These leads to a fair number of bad shots. If he has high secondaries then he can opt to dribble out of the situation or pass to a player in a better position if he is presented with a bad shot.

1.What do you call short range jumpers?if inside painted area i thought inside shot handled this...also i don't want my center taking jumpshots in inside game
2.I thought that pg,sg,sf only contributed to flow...on the other hand i agree with passing on centers,but handling is just useless.
3.Agreed on some parts.
To crazyeye:i was talking about the chilean pg.
But still the salary diffirence between outside team and inside team is huge,to play inside game at high levels(BBB or Div 1) you must have monster centers,pg and good sg,sf,meanwhile playing outside is diffirent you can have defensive centers whose wages are not 200k and you dont need 150k sg's.

Last edited by kausasas at 1/22/2010 2:29:46 PM

1. Looking at the replays of games you can see that PF/Cs shoot a lot of jumps from outside the key when they can't get good shots in closer. I suspect that JS plays a role in determining if these shots go in. Obviously you don't want your big guys shooting short and mid-range shots, but it doesn't appear to be something that managers have a ton of control over.

2. I believe that while PG, SG and SF contribute to the flow rating the PF and C do contribute to how the game engine actually calculates things. I would argue that handling is as important, if not more important for bigs since it plays a major role in limiting turnovers. High OD big men can wreak havoc on big men with low handling.

Believe me if JS for big men was the problem i would be the happiest big men trainer on the game. JS indeed looks like very important skill of the big men performance and i am always training it since i play this game.

Handling i really dont think that (if we compare it with real life) important, couz the job of the big men job is usually to pass or execute, not try to brake ankles, thats the guards job. Nash is accepted as one of the best PG's of the game, with great handling/passing skills. Last 5 years (his best of his career) he avs 3.5+ TO. Chris Paul career TO av is around 2.5 Derron Williams very close to 3.

Lets check now the dominate big men. Dunkan: 2.74 career. Shaq: 2.79, Garnett: 2.45. What we can see here? Elite big men have comparable TO's to elite PGs. Why? PGs have the ball on there hands way more than the bigs. Dont tell me that big men have equal handling to the big men. Why then is handling such a big deal for the big men?

I can understand that they want to avoid players like Cardenas (400k+ salary big men) but again i dont think that this is the right way, considering how many limitations big men have

Is much more useful 2 big mans of 100-150k with good skill combination than a monster of 400k with low secondaries. Thats the point.

If you use a center with 6-7 handling, passing, driving and OD with 8-9 in JS you will have lots of advantages. If your PF has 12 JS and 10 OD even more. The problem is that you can see hundreds of centers with most of his secondary skills in 1-4 which are paid by the people in the market. Lots of outside managers (Im an outside manager) try to have all the secondary skills trained, I even trained my guards in inside skills in the past, now I cant but I try to buy them with good inside skills.

Is like the 6-7 trainers isue, they dont worth what people pay, but people still pay it. If a center with 17 IS 15 REB with 2 OD 1 HD, 2 PAS and 3 JS is paid 6M+ is not BBs problem, it is, in fact, people problem.

Here you have a match with some nice secondary centers in the court (8339), the best outside attack of BB absolutely dominated, and I heard that Spain had 3 more of enthusiasm. And you can do even better, Italy could have better secondaries in the centers. The SF for example only had 8-9 in OD.

Also take care that you need different outside players for a Run&Gun than a Look Inside. In Inside tactics guards with Huge Passing and very nice OD are a MUST.

In my opinion BBs gave lots of clues in the forums, now you can choice between trying to understand the GE or buying a lvl7 trainer to increase a disastrous secondaries and superwaged center (with 2SB) more the Rebounds.

Last edited by LeYeNdiNhA at 1/22/2010 10:47:34 PM

I agree in what you say, 2ndaries are very important. My PF have 8-10 on JS. I can train it. Tell me how long you need to train your C up to 8-9OD, and PA?

Play him 48 minutes as a PG in a friendly match. If not, do it in an easy league/cup game, you play him as PG, he deffend as C.

Half a year of training if you buy him with 7 OD and 7 PA (high secondary centers cost more, but then you can make effective and balanced monsters with the training).

The problem could came if you bought your center with very low secondaries.. in that case sell him and just go for another one in the market. Thats all.