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Well its true players cap earlier nowadays but still some teams might not be able to afford 6+ level trainer and 7 level youth trainer, which end up capping players around 27, so for these teams it takes the full 12 seasons to create their 130+ TSP players.

You need some severe luck to have 3-4 downs in 3 years even with career extension trainer, but still there's the case when the same skill gets 2 or more pop downs, thats crucial in every level of play and especially for 1st division and National teams, where most of the community's attention is being placed every year.

About the player you presented he is a special case propably around 148 TSP on his peak, so he is just the exception to the rule since players like him are very rarely created by micro nations since they have very limited ATG players drafted by non-bot teams each season.

Finally, about the "random control" in pop downs I think its just fine how it is, since the same thing is happening in real life. Some players remain closer to their peak than others of the same age, for example Vince Carter who's playing at the most competitive league in the world at the age of 42 and a National Team example is Luis Scola who played in this year's World Cup with Argentina while being 40 years old and dominated younger bigs. There are some less rare cases than these two I presented with players around 36-37 not having a severe drop at their performance in the court. In contrast, a lot of NBA players end up overseas in their mid 30's since they cant compete anymore, same for players around the world moving from a competitive league to an easier one when they get older. What I am trying to say is that this "random control" you would like to change is a hidden ability of a player, like aggressiveness, that varies for each player just like in real life.

So my opinion remains the same about my suggestion and I realy think it would benefit us in varius ways, I already presented, in case it gets implemented.

Since you are that data expert you could find an analysis about the age most players enter their prime so we can compare it with what happens in BB :) I bet most players enter their prime before 27-28 years old so what's the point of following reality's numbers with such accuracy. I know it sounds a bit controversial with my initial points but since you proved me wrong with these analyses, I have to adjust my arguments to the data you presented. So my point remains the same why should the amount of time when a player is at his prime be reduced in BB considering to what happens in reality?

I guess you misunderstood my point. I never said players shouldn't move from higher leagues to lower leagues in BB, what I said was to extend the age from 33-34 to 36-37 when players start to drop in skills so they move to lower leagues.

You might not care about how long an NT level player gets to play after his training is complete because you never trained an NT level player(at least in your current team). Although, I bet most users, who trained an NT level player or even a player that never makes NT(trained for 2-3 real life years with lower level trainers) but helps them climb divisions or win major titles and want to stick with them as long as possible, do care about how long their player plays in NT and(or) at their team. I realy don't see why increasing the incentive to train players to that level will lead to an already existing spread between newer, lower division teams and the more established higher division teams in a country, which is more likely to have these players. Having players who are playing in U-21 and National Team games increases your merchandise and helps you either make huge profit after selling them or advance to higher divisions-win major titles since you have created a player that covers exactly your team needs and you very rarely find in TL nowadays.

I mentioned the career extension coach but even with some good luck invovled 3-4 pop downs in 2 seasons can make a difference.

Finally, about the career ending injuries, holdouts and players forcing a trade, they are very interesting suggestions, but I think most people would quit the game if the player they trained for 2-3 real life years and spent so much money for him ends his career due to an injury so that would hurt BB. Moreover, it would be unrealistic a player that is provided by his team the highest level of personal training for most of his career to demand a trade. In conclusion, a high salary player in a team with minimal success forcing a trade would make more sense imo.

I think I covered everything you mentioned let me know if I forgot something.

Last edited by Nick Manetos at 12/11/2019 4:17:23 AM

I find his suggestion quite logical.As for NBA players moving to europe it does not happen because they have a significant amount of their skillset drops.Its because in the Nba the competition is cruel.And most teams with few exceptions choose to train develop and invest in younger players because its a more efficient investment.They buy cheap and if they sell they will sell expensive.We have to realise that BB is definitely not even close to an mildly accurate depiction of real life basketball.Its a simulation with its pros and cons. Skill drop at 35 is a viable and better option.90 per cent of the managers quit the game because by the time they lean how it works its too late.Training a player for 10 seasons just to have him competitive for 4-5seasons is abnormal.So either we should extend their careers or make training even faster.Good players are quite expensive compared to 5 years ago cause somany players quit playing.

Actually me previous reply was to you. Not to nick manetos.I just pressed the wrong button

First, this effect is 100% a result of user behavior.

True but it's also because game mechanics make it possible. BB players differ from their NBA counterparts in many regards. BB players are much more raw when they're first drafted and peak later. Training works differently too. NBA players typically see most improvements happen in the offseason when they have time to develop their game, while BB players improve consistently throughout the season (if they're being trained).

Training a player for 10 seasons just to have him competitive for 4-5seasons is abnormal

if your goal is training in general and not to dedicate yourself to a single player, after 6-7 seasons you should've already switched your focus to younger trainees

I feel like you either willingly understand whatever you want from what I said or my English dont let you get my whole point.

My first claim was indeed incorrect since you proved me wrong with your data.That's because in my thought process I didnt consider searching for further data and I just presented some of the not so few examples of players that remain at their prime even during their 34th-35th year of age.

That's where I refer in my first sentence of this post:"His second claim is a game balance/strategy consideration that basically boils down to: it would be nice to have NT level players spend more time at their peak skills before drops happen. There isn't much more to his argument than that."I mean its insane to me that you get that's my only argument for my suggestion but I will quote you again my arguments and hopefully this time you understand!

b) Now the important part of this suggestion is how it will benefit us, users. First of all, it will help teams, that like to train their players and use them to succeed either this is just advancing divisions or in the top level win National Tournament, 1st Division Championship and BBB, have a wider period of success since most players complete their training at the age of 29 so their owners have only 4 seasons to compete without having to suffer from pop downs which is a realy short amount of time considering it takes 11-12 seasons to complete their players' training. Secondly, it will benefit countries with less users, having more competitive National Teams since players will be able to offer their services while they are at their peak for 3 more seasons. That being said for the seasons that weren't drafted MVP+ potential players from non-bot teams, National Teams' ability to compete with countries with more users wont be restricted. Moreover, it will be less likely for new users to get in to the trap of buying players that are experiencing pop downs and hurt their team's success without realising it. In conclusion, users that get in to some kind of a bond with the players they either draft-start training at an early age or are related to their teams' success will have more time to enjoy and take advantage of their players' peak skills.

That's especially the case when essentially all changes related to players skills have gone in the direction of inflating skills. We've gotten the new buildings, the new youth trainer, the widespread adoption of elastic training all leading to increasing skills. If we reduce the age drops, then skills increase further. And yet for a player to still be "good" he'll still need to be trained even more, in order to rise above the new, inflated skill average. That's key here. And that increase in training, which takes a lot of real life time, is what is daunting for newer players. It strongly favors older, more established teams who have finished their arenas and can spend money on buildings and youth trainers. It increases the average strength between divisions, which makes the prospect of advancing up divisions more difficult.

You are vewing things very subjectively because your team is also relatively new so you are using only your point of view in order to comment on my suggestion.Older teams have finished their arenas and might have several millions aside but most of them did many mistakes that new users, which are willing to read the forums, can avoid and this way reduce the gap between the more established teams.Being able to avoid the salary floor for the first 24 weeks is also a huge advantage if used correctly.You can complete your arena in ~6 seasons and be in 1st division in a country, with enough actives users to complete 4 divisions,in ~10-12 If you devote enough time to learn the game at least at 85%.In conclusion,I think its fair for the older teams to have an advantage since this game is all about patience and they have all been exremely patient to play the game for so