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Game engine and bugs (thread closed)

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66639.3 in reply to 66639.2
Date: 1/1/2009 11:58:25 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
506506
what is the bug in the outside defense you are speaking of?


Although I'm not sure wether ned is talking about this bug, there is something wrong with the OD rating for about 3 seasons now already, but we've never really found what it is. My latest guess is that there's something wrong with the contribution of the SG to the OD rating.

The 1st post about this issue actually was at 4/14/2008 and I can refer you to this thread; (24361.1)
I believe it was never solved. The last BB post in that thread came from BB-Charles saying this;

I am still unable to find this in the code, although the results you're giving me seem to suggest pretty strongly that it's there.

So, here's another possibility to consider. When a player is in foul trouble, their defense will be weaker while they're on the court. For outside players, this manifests itself in an unwillingness to challenge the ball handler or to really get in their face on jumpers, and will weaken outside defense somewhat as long as your player is trying to play through his foul trouble. I notice that eventually the starting SG fouled out in the first game posted in this thread, and wonder whether that might be part of the answer.

I'm going to have to keep looking at this one, because I really don't know the correct answer here.


I guess it's just one of the BB mystery's. I can give you a few recent (this season) examples where the OD ratings is odd if you like.

Oh btw, thnx for the nice post hehe.

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 1/1/2009 12:04:44 PM

From: ned
This Post:
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66639.4 in reply to 66639.2
Date: 1/1/2009 12:15:51 PM
Freccia Azzurra
IV.18
Overall Posts Rated:
823823
Second Team:
Slaytanic
First point, ok, thanks ;)

Second, I'll speak with Domenico ;)

Regarding rebound, you'll give us a favour, some ratings against rebounds taken are "strange".

About shot blocking I'm sorry I don't agree, 1 or 2 shot blocking per match cannot change anything in a game and further to this it seems to me that an high level skill shot blocking doesn't guarantee a "lot" of shot blocking. More or less is the same that assist, I'm playing in Italy first division and I've some players that give more assists than a lvl 12 or 13 in IV division USA when I've skill lvl 7 or 8, this is quite strange too

Of course BB is the best online game I play and these are only some "details", the big problems are almost solved (like day trading for example), but if you can make BB the perfect game, why not?

EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:47:49 PM

1990-2022 Stalinorgel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV-Xppl6h8Et
From: brian
This Post:
00
66639.5 in reply to 66639.2
Date: 1/1/2009 12:43:13 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
576576
Regarding a potential GE adjustment/rebalancing, maybe need to take a peek at the home court advantage, seems to have become more difficult over the seasons for any team to win away.

"Well, no ones gonna top that." - http://tinyurl.com/noigttt
From: sneakyB

This Post:
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66639.6 in reply to 66639.5
Date: 1/1/2009 12:58:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
I second that, the HCA seems higher this season.

This Post:
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66639.7 in reply to 66639.3
Date: 1/1/2009 1:40:59 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
I can say that I am continuing amazed at the ability of our users to detect bugs with disturbing accuracy. There was indeed a bug in the GE with respect to how OD team ratings were presented, that had to do with the SG OD contribution... (his jumpshot was being added to the rating and not the OD). Now before everyone freaks out and demands their games rerun, this is simply a presentational error.. as teamratings are not the things we principly use when calculating results for things in the GE.

I fixed it on Tuesday, so things should be presented better going forward.

perhaps this is the OD error ned is winking about...

This Post:
00
66639.8 in reply to 66639.6
Date: 1/1/2009 1:44:41 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
i do not believe we have changed the numerical size of the HCA, however, perhaps because it is a multiplicative effect it is having a larger effect with larger ratings...

this again gets at the core question of revisiting how all of our calculations scale within the GE. There are many areas that are probably not scaling as we would like them to. The problem is that reworking the formulas to scale better is going to involve a massive retuning of the GE and there is no guarantee that the competitive balance won't be thrown off.... meaning what was a good team in the old GE might be significantly worse in the new, and vice versa.... given that users have spent a lot of time and effort tuning their teams to the current game balance it is a challenge to figure out how to retune things without pissing everyone off.

EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:48:19 PM

This Post:
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66639.9 in reply to 66639.7
Date: 1/1/2009 2:26:54 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
224224
perhaps this is the OD error ned is winking about...

This is correct. Good to know it's only presentational.

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/1/2009 2:27:27 PM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
From: sneakyB
This Post:
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66639.10 in reply to 66639.8
Date: 1/1/2009 3:35:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
I think a lot of us were under the wrong impression that the changes to the GE were rolled out to the official league games and not only for the scrimmages. And my personal impression was exactly what you're describing, the competitive balance beeing thrown off, I felt my team was worse only because of those changes. I guess I'm not one of those players you're talking that will acurately "feel" the bugs

This Post:
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66639.11 in reply to 66639.10
Date: 1/1/2009 4:11:52 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
sorry let me clarify, i thought i did earlier... the changes were first rolled out to scrimmages, and then later were implemented for all games.... i was mistaken before when i suggested they hadn't. sorry for the confusion.

so that being said anyone have any bright ideas how to handle the conundrum?

either dont change anything and deal with issues like rebounding advantages not scalling as rebounding ratings get higher? or changing the way we do rebounding and potentially changing the competitive balance.. particularly for the higher leagues.

EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:48:43 PM

From: ned
This Post:
00
66639.12 in reply to 66639.2
Date: 1/1/2009 4:15:11 PM
Freccia Azzurra
IV.18
Overall Posts Rated:
823823
Second Team:
Slaytanic
Forrest, only to discuss, don't you think that the teams training ID, IS or rebound are a little bit stronger than teams that are use to play outside? In Italy all the championships won training "inside", in BBB all the teams have better ratings using look inside and I think all of them are training center and PG.
We discussed already in Italy about this matter and the conclusion was that training center and PG was good for immediate result but that who trains shorter players but after some seasons I think there is still a gap between tallers and shorters


1990-2022 Stalinorgel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV-Xppl6h8Et
This Post:
00
66639.13 in reply to 66639.11
Date: 1/1/2009 4:24:42 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
167167
every online game i have played, when it was either hattrick or world of warcraft or one off the other many games, there are always balancing issues. some have a bigger impact than others. As long as the ones that cause major problems get dealt with, I hope you will keep the changes to the game engine to a minimum. There will always be unhappy "whining" bunnies, whatever changes you make. When I look at the statistics from the games and not to the team player ratings or individual player ratings, 95% off the results (if not a higher %) make total sense. I think people should stop looking at nice words (the ratings) and use their brains and look at their statistics. So many posts in the "how did i loose this game" are easy to explain as 1+1=2. I am a total noob when it comes to basketball, but I use my brains.

I might be totally off topic here and there might be a problem with the game engine, but i bet 99% off the people are happy with this game. (most likely because it is so much better than hattrick). So why not just fix small issues, and leave the happy people happy??

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