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Luck of the draw

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This Post:
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1490.30 in reply to 1490.29
Date: 10/9/2007 8:14:42 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
9696
thanks, didn't know about the 50k.

And those scrimmages, will this help a lot?
in training yes, but will they draw as much spectators as competition games?

They are not your friends; they dispise you. I am the only one you can count on. Trust me.
This Post:
00
1490.31 in reply to 1490.30
Date: 10/9/2007 8:18:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5050
I doubt it. But, it gives you an opportunity to see your team in action, try out some tactics, and then dominate the regular season!

This Post:
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1490.32 in reply to 1490.30
Date: 10/9/2007 8:27:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
They won't draw anywhere close to league/cup matches. Plus no revenue is generated from scrimmages.

This Post:
00
1490.33 in reply to 1490.32
Date: 10/9/2007 8:45:08 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
9696
okay, so there goes my hope for a few bucks...

well, at least we can get some training.

good thinking of the developpers to give noobs 50 k each week. (I doubt I would survive if not, now it should take me trough the off season)
Hope I can sell some players to lower my wages each week. ;)

They are not your friends; they dispise you. I am the only one you can count on. Trust me.
From: Vikman

This Post:
00
1490.35 in reply to 1490.34
Date: 10/10/2007 12:28:21 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
Are you sure you didn't get the 50k? It has been there since the beginning of season 1. It may have been hard to spot due to the economy page being confusing.

This Post:
00
1490.37 in reply to 1490.36
Date: 10/10/2007 5:03:50 AM
1986 Celtics
IV.31
Overall Posts Rated:
88
i understand the frustration with teams getting placed above you...but why wouldn't you be upset about a team getting put into DIII when you are in D IV?

I don't see how we can avoid putting teams into leagues that are already somewhere in the playoffs. I also don't see how we can reset the standings for new teams...as this would make strategizing a nightmare... say you are CT to get into the playoffs... then a new team signs up and you are now in.. but you didn't check your tactics soon enough and are then upset cause you CT unnecessarily etc...

we very much would love to get rid of as many bot teams in human divisions as possible. I'm not sure whether we have decided what to do.. part of me wants to just promote everyone up in some way so that there are no bot teams except in the lowest active division. the downside of that is that it sort of makes the playoffs this year meaningless...

From: jimrtex
This Post:
00
1490.38 in reply to 1490.37
Date: 10/10/2007 7:28:01 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
33
we very much would love to get rid of as many bot teams in human divisions as possible. I'm not sure whether we have decided what to do.. part of me wants to just promote everyone up in some way so that there are no bot teams except in the lowest active division. the downside of that is that it sort of makes the playoffs this year meaningless...

You could give meaning to a combination of playoffs and the regular season. Think of it something like the NCAA conference tournaments. If you are 3-15 in league, you have to win the tournament to get a berth. If you are 12-4 (and 20 wins overall) you might get in if you can advance a couple of rounds. If you are first in league, and choke your tournament opener, you might still get in.

Use the playoffs to determine a champion who is guaranteed promotion, and use the rest of the playoffs, including a losers bracket to determine the ranking for additional teams that might promote to replace bots. Base the ranking on the combination of league and tournament wins. A first place team in the regular season will have a win or two starting out, but if they are 0-6 in the playoffs, they'll get passed by other teams.

BTW. if you plan on removing bots by promoting active teams, you never have to put teams anyplace but the bottom division. You could have started all the USA teams in D.V and let the top 1/4 promote each season and would have a filled D.I after the 14 teams after the fittest rose to the top.

Or you could use the first season of the new countries just to rank and place all teams for the 2nd season. Start the countries out with 4 divisions, and place all the teams in D.IV. Only count wins by the owner, so the teams that sign up early will have 22 games, and those who sign up in the last week only a game or two. At the end of the first season, place the top 16 teams in D.I, the next 64 in D.II and so on. If you like, you can use the playoffs for more games to base the ranking on.

This Post:
00
1490.39 in reply to 1490.38
Date: 10/10/2007 9:45:14 AM
1986 Celtics
IV.31
Overall Posts Rated:
88
I don't completely follow your suggestions....

i agree that initially if we promote to fill the divisions we will only put new teams in DIV... but the reason why we have bot teams in upper divisions now is because of inactive users.. not because we were randomly filling spots. Then at some point we decided to not put new teams in the upper divisions so that users that came in at the same time would all start at the same time.

I'm not really sure how the second suggestion works in a situation where we are alwasy gaining and losing users... what happens in season 2 when you lose a number of owners from season 1?

the problem with the losers bracket playoff idea is that we just don't have time to have those playoffs.. at least at the pace that the rest of the site is run at... plus the average team wouldn't ever have 6 playoff games...i think it would be easiest to just promote the teams with the best regularseason records.

lastly... i happy to hear your suggestions.. sorry this was very point by point... its late, i'm tired and i'm a scientist so i tend to be overly analytical sometimes... please give more ideas.. or bring up points against those i rose.. i'd be happy to read and respond..

Edited 10/10/2007 9:46:32 AM by BB-Forrest

From: jimrtex
This Post:
00
1490.40 in reply to 1490.39
Date: 10/11/2007 8:21:57 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
33
How many weeks do you have available for the playoffs? I've assumed 3 weeks, and up to 3 games per week. Teams in the promotion playoffs would not have scrimmages, just like if they are still in the cup. They would play 2 or 3 games per week based on whether they sweep the first two games of three game series.

For a losers bracket, I don't mean that it would be a double elimination format where teams with a loss have to play more games or series, but simply play against similar placed teams:

S1 G1 v B4 (Series 1, Great 8 1 vs. Big 8 4, home court advantage listed first_
S2 B2 v G3
S3 G2 v B3
S4 B1 v G4

S5 W1 v W2 (Winner series 1 vs Winner series 2)
S6 W3 v W4
S7 L1 v L2
S8 L3 v L4

S9 W5 v W6 (home court advantage decided based on higher regular season place, better record, or head-to-head, etc.)
S10 L5 v L6
S11 W7 v W8
S12 L7 v L8 (or you might sliminate S12 or reduce a single game plus a scrimmage)

There is assumed to be some economic disadvantages to losing vs. winning. Playing in the championship series should sell out (can we charge more for playoff tickets?), while playing for 7th place after losing two series should be rather subdued.

By combining the league record and the playoff record as far as determining extra promotion opportunities to replace bots, you give credit for the league performance, but an opportunity for teams to move up. But even if teans lose in the first round, there will be a reason for them to continue to try to win.


There might be a different format for the bottom 8, that has fewer games, but continues the competition over 3 weeks. For example, you could have the teams in one conference play the 4 teams in the other conference, completing the home and home series, and rank teams for relegation based on the 14 games between the bottom 8.

Again there is value in the league record, since 10 games would carry over, but teams would have a chance to move up and avoid relegation against relatively weak competition. The 5th place teams will have lower risk of relegation because they will have a game or two advantage, and the 8th place teams might have to go 4-0. But even if they are 0-4 and confirm their relegation status it is better than sitting idle.

So the top 8 would have between 6 and 9 playoff games, and the bottom 8 would have 4 classification games, plus 3 scrimmage openings.


I understand that the teams in the upper divisions are due to teams going inactive. If BB is like HT, then around 1/2 of teams will sign up and do little more. There might be another 20% in the next season, and then 5 to 10% in each following season.

If you put teams strictly in the bottom division (instead of the bottom 2 like HT), then all teams that get to the 2nd bottom division will be more likely to continue playing. Players who like the game will tend to do better, those who do better will tend to like the game more. And you can add new teams at about the same time. If you start at IV.1 at the start of the season, and never look back until you get to IV.64 teams will all have about the same starting date. Personally, I'd start them at 0-0. It might seem a bit odd to have a 3 game league, but if everyone is in the same boat, it was fair, and you didn't tell people to wait for 5 weeks until the new season.

If you do get to IV.64, then start looking for the leagues with the most bots, and replace all the bots at once (or in as short a period as possible). There can be some league that have 16 bots, and others that have just a few.


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