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If ,for example, every season a top team adds 1M to their value, than they have 10M advantage when the new user will join 10 seasons after.

if they don't spend it you could easily beat him early, if he try to stay a top team he will be soon loose money cause the income is close to zero and the players loose lot of value through aging.

This difference will not be reduced, and it will most likely will get bigger, as the "old" team could invest more and by that enlarging their profit.

which is limited, since the arena seems to be the only good and expensive investment which have a upper limit and get less valuable the bigger it gets.

If ,for example, every season a top team adds 1M to their value, than they have 10M advantage when the new user will join 10 seasons after.

if they don't spend it you could easily beat him early, if he try to stay a top team he will be soon loose money cause the income is close to zero and the players loose lot of value through aging.

You just did not get it...
A team is not balanced. It grows every year.
It could grow money-wise, upon assets (Arena growth) or by player's value.
If a team grows 1M (for example) each year, than it will be 10M ahead of a new player who joined 10 seasons afterwards.
It will be unrealistic to close this gap.

This difference will not be reduced, and it will most likely will get bigger, as the "old" team could invest more and by that enlarging their profit.

which is limited, since the arena seems to be the only good and expensive investment which have a upper limit and get less valuable the bigger it gets.

As I wrote here, it is not true - the team could have more players, their value could be higher, or event the cash flow may grow.

You just did not get it...
A team is not balanced. It grows every year.

No it is you that do not get it.
You don't grow if you are in a competitive league every year

It could grow money-wise, upon assets (Arena growth) or by player's value.

You make money, but you are also spending money!
You grow arena but it is capped at 20,000. No one builds arenas once they have reached around 21-22,000
Player values also drops due to age. Whatever value you get from training 3-6 players, will be more than offset by value loss due to ageing of all players on your team. All your money saved, you will be putting it back into new players.

If a team grows 1M (for example) each year, than it will be 10M ahead of a new player who joined 10 seasons afterwards.
It will be unrealistic to close this gap.

It is not as dramatic as you make it out to be and it CAN be done. We have had teams rise up through the ranks from D4 to compete with the top tier teams in D1. All it takes is playing the game with a plan and be smart about your decisions as to not invest too much in value decreasing assets.

As I wrote here, it is not true - the team could have more players, their value could be higher, or event the cash flow may grow

Cash flow does not grow. There is only so much you can get once your arena is maxed out and you have hit the soft cap.
There is no point having more players. Why would you want 30-40 players? Each player you have will drop in value due to ageing

You just did not get it...
A team is not balanced. It grows every year.
It could grow money-wise, upon assets (Arena growth) or by player's value.
If a team grows 1M (for example) each year, than it will be 10M ahead of a new player who joined 10 seasons afterwards.
It will be unrealistic to close this gap.

Ok then take a closer look at my team to exercise it:

Player Salaries: 	$ 858 862 	Attendance: 	$ 578 999
Staff Salaries: 	$ 71 061 	Merchandise: 	$ 153 911
Scouting: 	$ 0 	TV Contract: 	$ 212 953
Total: 	$ 929 923 	Total: 	$ 945 863
Typical Weekly Net Income: $ 15 940

The attendance money, i had here could be a good average. My salaries are very low for my quality cause i had a very multiskilled team, which makes it cheap in salary but cost lot more when i buy it. Now you can say my team grows around 16 *14 Weeks + 400k(cup income) -> roughly 620k.

Lets take a look at some of my players:
(4595070) - i bought him fpr 7,3M and he is still one of the coolest PF in the Game, also becaused i trained him nearly all the time for the NT. If i sell him now, i will get most likely around 3-4M. If i buy a new one with his quality, and the old age, it will cost 6. But it was still a good investment, cause through his multiskill i would say a "normal" player with his skill would been more salary expensiv(that wuld mean oi burn money during the salarys cause my income is lower then my salarys)

(6019643) i paid 3,5 M, probadly would get 2,5M now.

etc.

You see here 2 things,on one hand my team declines cause i loose more money then i earn every season. Even with a salary you couldn't compete with my team, cause the rich team will spend money for more salary expensiv players instead of paying higher salaries during the week.

I actually planning to be succesful 2 additional seasons, cause the old dudes are getting better with their experience and i found a team which is hard to beat. But when i make a makeover then, my team will be significant weaker.

No it is you that do not get it.
You don't grow if you are in a competitive league every year

You make money, but you are also spending money!

I'll explain again...
Player's salary rising means that the team is GROWING.
Having a balanced NBA team will not be as strong as having an-economic-balanced third league team.

They are both playing in a competative league for the players they currently have.

You see here 2 things,on one hand my team declines cause i loose more money then i earn every season. Even with a salary you couldn't compete with my team, cause the rich team will spend money for more salary expensiv players instead of paying higher salaries during the week.

1) It proves nothing.
A team that will just enter your league will be balanced as well, but with players that will cost much less, and by that it means that their quality will be much lower.
In order to compete (just for staying it the league) they will need to invest the same mount of money that other teams has on this league.
How can they do it? They need to save a lot of money to get to the roster's value that you have.
They just cannot do it. It will take them ages.

Let's try something else - can you bring the amount of seasons each team in your league (on last season) has been in BB and the place they've reached (on that season)?

A team that will just enter your league will be balanced as well, but with players that will cost much less, and by that it means that their quality will be much lower.

which mean he loose less money, or gain more.

How can they do it? They need to save a lot of money to get to the roster's value that you have.

they would need to do it even more, to get the same quality with my salarys. So a cap wouldn't help. The exchange of the roster to adjust to the new salary cap, would be even more expensiv for him cause he could rarely keep some player, who he had in div 2 with a div 2 cao,

They just cannot do it. It will take them ages.

imho the championship boost is pretty high, which makes it pretty hard that right(or easy to keep the superior position). But to compete with the rest, and stay ind ivision isn't that ocomplicated or impossible as you say.

A team that will just enter your league will be balanced as well, but with players that will cost much less, and by that it means that their quality will be much lower.

which mean he loose less money, or gain more.

A lossing team will get less money from tickets and such.
A team that is new also would have much less seats to have "Arena size" big enough to have the same income.

How can they do it? They need to save a lot of money to get to the roster's value that you have.

they would need to do it even more, to get the same quality with my salarys. So a cap wouldn't help. The exchange of the roster to adjust to the new salary cap, would be even more expensiv for him cause he could rarely keep some player, who he had in div 2 with a div 2 cap

Sorry, but again I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.
1) When getting to Div-I from Div-II he will have the cap of Div-I.
2) This is only a suggestion to handle the problem, we can bring other suggestions to the bigger issue disucssed here - "making the game competative for new users" - but first we need to discuss whether it is needed.
3) In any case, a cap will assist here, as the new team in that league will probably be on the incoming side of the Soft-Cap's tax, as they will probably have much cheaper roster.

They just cannot do it. It will take them ages.

imho the championship boost is pretty high, which makes it pretty hard that right(or easy to keep the superior position). But to compete with the rest, and stay ind ivision isn't that ocomplicated or impossible as you say.

So, bring the information (described before) for the worst 8 teams in your league (or any other). The names are not important of course.

1) When getting to Div-I from Div-II he will have the cap of Div-I.

ok again an example, lets lock at this player:

Jump Shot: strong Jump Range: respectable
Outside Def.: strong Handling: respectable
Driving: average Passing: strong
Inside Shot: tremendous Inside Def.: sensational
Rebounding: prodigious Shot Blocking: mediocre
Stamina: average Free Throw: respectable

Experience: strong

i think a good starter for a div 2 team with a salary cap cause he ask for 50k salary. In div 1 he would compete against 100k salary center with cap, who are also maxed in value for minimal salary from the rich team. Now you had to get a new one, and probadly you had do do it on all positions. While actually you can have a more fluent promotion, and maybe add 1-2 stars instead of replacing an salary optimised team.

3) In any case, a cap will assist here, as the new team in that league will probably be on the incoming side of the Soft-Cap's tax, as they will probably have much cheaper roster.

why now and not before? I have trouble to understand it, especially since a hard cap will only raise the income of the rich team who excell it.

2) This is only a suggestion to handle the problem, we can bring other suggestions to the bigger issue disucssed here - "making the game competative for new users" - but first we need to discuss whether it is needed.

how about, giving each team every season a standard lineup, don't allow transfer. So everyone handling the same, and can only develop through tactic and training during the season. Every other system, you don't come in one league and have a 1/16 chanche of being champion. I mean a managing game, is about making the right choiches to be stronger in the future, ensuring this makes it nearly impossible to give everybody the same chanches at the begin of the season.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 11/4/2011 6:42:34 AM

i think a good starter for a div 2 team with a salary cap cause he ask for 50k salary. In div 1 he would compete against 100k salary center with cap, who are also maxed in value for minimal salary from the rich team. Now you had to get a new one, and probadly you had do do it on all positions. While actually you can have a more fluent promotion, and maybe add 1-2 stars instead of replacing an salary optimised team.

Sorry, but again I'm not sure what you are saying.
1) In any real-leagues, when a team is promoted it will need to make a big roster change.
2) That 50K player, will probably will be a great backup in the his new DIV.
3) He may have a very intense "summer" replacing more players than current system (and as I wrote above, I doubt that, but he will have more chance staying in that league due to the cap system, which is much more mportant.

3) In any case, a cap will assist here, as the new team in that league will probably be on the incoming side of the Soft-Cap's tax, as they will probably have much cheaper roster.

why now and not before? I have trouble to understand it, especially since a hard cap will only raise the income of the rich team who excell it.

Ahh? the soft-cap is defined upon sallary or player's value assesment or both.
A rich team will have better players, and by that players that cost more.
Hence they will be on the paying side.

Everyone tries to maximize skills-to-money.
More money does allow you to maximize it more, but just to have better players (that costs more money...).

2) This is only a suggestion to handle the problem, we can bring other suggestions to the bigger issue disucssed here - "making the game competative for new users" - but first we need to discuss whether it is needed.

how about, giving each team every season a standard lineup, don't allow transfer. So everyone handling the same, and can only develop through tactic and training during the season. Every other system, you don't come in one league and have a 1/16 chanche of being champion.

This is not about a new team in DIV XXX taking the cup and beating the hell out of a team which is at DIV-1.
It is about the chance to someday, and not in a new era, that first team could compete with agianst the second team.