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I have traditionally done that as well. But I also believe there are ways you can tweak the skills you are looking for/training in players to enhance FCPs effectiveness. That’s what I’ve been working out. Nobody is good with it because no one has built a team to run it effectively. I have learned a ton this last 6 or 7 seasons. I may do a tear down real soon and build back up with everything I’ve learned to enhance its effectiveness because absolutely I’ve made mistakes through trial and error. It’s also been really interesting how I’ve been able to be pretty effective with a lower payroll playing it, I was 50k below the league average last season and still up near the top of the standings. This year I’m running at about a 270k payroll right now in the cup but after I’m eliminated will probably pair down to a lean 235-240k payroll for the rest of the season. Meanwhile competitive with teams running 300, 325k payrolls. So still making a decent profit each week is nice. I’ve also never really invested in top tier players to run this system so I’d say I’ve discovered a lot of positives with very limited investment. Ultimately will it bring back to being a playoff NBBA team again? Who knows but it’s the journey and attempting to do something no one else that has tried before that’s kept the game interesting.

Last edited by ehoosier at 2/23/2023 3:11:15 PM

Which team was your old NBBA team? And have we played back then?

Anyway: I think your current FCP setup is devastating. The one tweak I'd consider if you break it up and rebuild is to not run it 100% of the time. If I *know* it's coming, I can plan for it. But if I'm 50/50 on whether it's coming, it's a whole new ballgame.

Last edited by Coco at 2/23/2023 3:36:51 PM

It was also Anchorage Allstars, I just added the period on this team. I was a in the NBBA in seasons like 32 through 38, or something like that. I think I went bot around season 38 or 39. Losing for a 3rd straight year to GM-Jason after I put everything into beating him…I was not up for a rebuild and my team had run its course. He sucked the will out of the game for me.

So question for you…what would you adjust if you know it’s coming? Like you start different players? Better handling guys? Or is there an offensive system you think is more effective against? Cause that is interesting to consider for me because I had never really noticed anyone doing anything different than they normally do against me.



Last edited by ehoosier at 2/23/2023 3:48:41 PM

Oh I see we did not overlap. I stopped playing around season 23.

I think I'm gonna keep my offensive adjustments a mild secret, for now, because they intersect with larger philosophies I have about the game and because I'm afraid of your team. But if/when you break it up, I'll talk more openly.

Certainly, speaking in very general terms, the goal playing against you needs to be to minimize turnovers. There is a big feedback loop there: if the team turns the ball over a lot, then your disadvantage at rebounding gets also minimized. The more actual shots we take, the more opportunity for 2nd chance points.

How one minimizes turnovers depends. I think all the things you noticed can be factors, and people disagree about this (and I bought some players over the offseason specifically with an eye towards playing you and Doctors of WI).

Last edited by Coco at 2/23/2023 4:23:51 PM

If you're going to diesgn a team built for a FCP defense, you need to have elite OD guards and far-above average OD for the rest of your players. You also need to have some seriously great rebounders since FCP helps the other team get a lot of offensive rebounds and 2nd chance points, and you also need to very dolid with ID to help your defenders stop baskets when the FCP fails and defenders are outnumbered on D. Oh, and with a faster game pace, you either need to keep your players' stamina up or have bench players near as good as the starters since they'll be getting heavier minutes.

I don't think there's an offensive counter against FCP (or if there was, I'd wait until after our match later in the season before I'd tell you what it is. ) If I knew an FCP was likely to come, I might adjust my lineup a lttle bit, which I can usually do since I tend to carry players with balanced skills but also tend to have a few swing players who could float between SG and SF or SF and PF. I'd make sure I had better ball handlers in the game, but I'd also favor better rebounders since points from offensive rebounds are the best offset against the inevitable increased TOs. And since I tend to have rosters with good depth rather than high-paid superstars, I'll often counter FCP with a fast-paced offense and maybe my own FCP and try to wear the other team out and beat their bench with my bench. My bench is usually the better bench, that how I roll (most seasons). The last few seasons my depth wasn't so great and I lost a few tragic games inthe 2nd half, but dropping down to D.III took care of that problem.

Last edited by chihorn at 2/23/2023 4:18:18 PM

If you're going to diesgn a team built for a FCP defense, you need to have elite OD guards and far-above average OD for the rest of your players. You also need to have some seriously great rebounders since FCP helps the other team get a lot of offensive rebounds and 2nd chance points, and you also need to very dolid with ID to help your defenders stop baskets when the FCP fails and defenders are outnumbered on D. Oh, and with a faster game pace, you either need to keep your players' stamina up or have bench players near as good as the starters since they'll be getting heavier minutes.

I don't think there's an offensive counter against FCP (or if there was, I'd wait until after our match later in the season before I'd tell you what it is. ) If I knew an FCP was likely to come, I might adjust my lineup a lttle bit, which I can usually do since I tend to carry players with balanced skills but also tend to have a few swing players who could float between SG and SF or SF and PF. I'd make sure I had better ball handlers in the game, but I'd also favor better rebounders since points from offensive rebounds are the best offset against the inevitable increased TOs. And since I tend to have rosters with good depth rather than high-paid superstars, I'll often counter FCP with a fast-paced offense and maybe my own FCP and try to wear the other team out and beat their bench with my bench. My bench is usually the better bench, that how I roll (most seasons). The last few seasons my depth wasn't so great and I lost a few tragic games inthe 2nd half, but dropping down to D.III took care of that problem.

Definitely some things I agree with in here but a couple things I think you are missing and/or are overrating.

I do think there are some some offenses that work better to pair with FCP than others. I will go against the grain to not expose what those offenses are that I have found.

I’ll give you another piece…game shape and enthusiasm is huge. I start out the seasons far worse because of my game shape isn’t optimized yet. My team performs a lot better around week 3 or 4 after I have built up those areas and it’s also why I don’t normal a lot. One or both seem to impact FCP far more than other defenses. I don’t know why yet but that’s been my experience.

But I also agree from an opponents perspective, I think you treat FCP just like you do someone who always plays man defense. Which means just play to your team strengths without getting guessed. Extra ball handling definitely helps.

Last edited by ehoosier at 2/23/2023 6:24:15 PM

One mistake I made in some of these builds was not emphasizing rebounding at my guards and wings position enough. That’s a mistake I realize now that I made that I will rectify in future builds.

I actually am happy to share my thoughts with anyone that is interested in the defense if they too are serious about giving it a shot to play as well. In our league or not.

Last edited by ehoosier at 2/23/2023 5:53:28 PM

Yeah, your team + RB that doesn't get you in trouble + insanely high OD would be next level.

In order to make FCP work, you need players with really good stamina. Otherwise, you can get burned by wearing your own players out. I would also expect that FT are important because you get fouled a lot if the other team starts to wear out.

Oddly enough, 2 of the 3 wins you have against me came when you weren't using FCP. Although 1 of those was a game we both played scrubs because of the Cup.

But like anything else, you should play to your strengths. It's just a lot easier to play M2M, unless you have a real matchup problem.

You realize that I only had a 225k payroll and you were carrying 80 to 90k more in salary than I was? I’ve never once even had a 40k player! And until two seasons ago never had a 30k player. You absolutely should beat me regardless of offense/defense. I recognize that.

And the one time I beat you in man to man was that weird game where we both tanked for the cup but I just had slightly more talent on the floor than you did.

But man my first season up in this league I’m running a bunch of 16k salary guys and won 14 games and made the playoffs. So there must be SOMETHING to what I’ve been doing that is working. And I absolutely want to see what this looks like when I can dump a 325k…350k roster at this like all the teams that promote out have.

Last edited by ehoosier at 2/25/2023 4:19:27 PM

You have me convinced that I better promote before you've got a loaded roster!