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If the big concern is about sharing information, I think we could add another dose or reality to help with this. There could be an "error factor" in the scouting, so that each scout may have a slightly different take on the same players, so this way maybe it's not always easy to identify the players. And maybe the accuracy of the scouting report could be based on how good the scout is (which would be a new staff position). In real life, scouting reports are not going to be perfect, so maybe this is the way out of this sharing information issue.

Or, maybe sharing information isn't such a bad thing. Developing relationships with other teams in one's league is part of the game. Teams plan mutual TIEs, give tips about how to set lineup against other teams, etc. BB is a community, so I wouldn't worry too much about information sharing, especially since it probably won't happen all that much, and where it does it would be part of making a stronger BB community.

Yes you have different numbers on those players. You still see player rating and his position (one time scouted). Different teams scout different players twise. So creating a draft list from 3 teams scouting combined, will give you an advantage over a team that does not have that info. I would really like to have power over my scouts (of who he will scout), but thinking about the abuse of that system makes me cautious. Even with a 3 day window you can clean up the slate with a few friends. We all know which players will not get scouted twise;) I will not write how to use that system easily in the forums. If you can't think of a way, drop me a BB-mail I will elaborate on this case. It starts with one team scouting every player once -> from there you can use your imagination.

I understand your concern about possible abuse, but I really can't imagine a way to share informations with a good reliability. I first observe a player with, say, potential A, height XL (I like the idea to use labels instead of centimeters), age 18 (In my hypotesis I didn't mention position). I scout him one more week and I see terrible skills. All I can say to my frends is: 'if, during your random first observations you see a player with A,XL,18, be carefull because a second observation could be useless. Simply set him at the bottom of your list'. Or, if skills are good, 'don't spend further money and set him at the top of your list'. My friends can accept the suggestion, but they will never be sure that the player is the same

They have already created some realism, by letting the scouts give you different game stats.
The problem with information sharing, is those 3-6 "friends" working together. We want to keep this game fair do we not? Ok let's say in some bizarre way everyone shares info. Depending on the players in draft you can calculate how many teams with how much invested you need in order to receive the whole draft info. Leagues with highly active players will get a huge advantage over those who are all playing for themselves. Or leagues with half bots.
Another example: What happens if your championship rival has 5 friends in the league lower position and every one of them CT-s against you and ties against others etc. No chance to gain HC for the playoffs.
I personally dislike any mutual TIE's, it borderlines cheating + I dislike any requested CT-s aswell (with no apparent gain for the CT-ing team).

The easiest way to solve all those problems would be to make all the key stats visible to everybody. Nobody of us has ever done some scouting and still we have pretty good knowledge of how the upcoming draft class will look like. Why dont let it be the same in this game?

Drafting late isn't really a punishment if your opponents dont scout a lot or are unlucky and dont scout the key players, if everybody knew who was availiable the weak teams could pick the best players and the best teams would get the rest.

They have already created some realism, by letting the scouts give you different game stats.
The problem with information sharing, is those 3-6 "friends" working together. We want to keep this game fair do we not? Ok let's say in some bizarre way everyone shares info. Depending on the players in draft you can calculate how many teams with how much invested you need in order to receive the whole draft info. Leagues with highly active players will get a huge advantage over those who are all playing for themselves. Or leagues with half bots.
Another example: What happens if your championship rival has 5 friends in the league lower position and every one of them CT-s against you and ties against others etc. No chance to gain HC for the playoffs.
I personally dislike any mutual TIE's, it borderlines cheating + I dislike any requested CT-s aswell (with no apparent gain for the CT-ing team).

If 3-6 friends (i.e. 18.8%-33.3% of a league) can really work this closely together, and stick in the same league for a long time (since the helping wasn't good enough to get any friend promoted), so what? How much of an edge can coordinated draft information really help, assuming it can even be pulled off? I'd see such sharing a sign that BB has a nice community of teams who like to work together, be friendly, etc. It's nice when a league's best team have the opportunity to help the worst teams, as could happen in a draft. But if you don't like mutual TIE's because you think that is borderline cheating (instead of just saying that the TIE system itself is what you don't like), then you just aren't in favor of teams looking for win-win deals. If we could have a system of trading players that was fair, you might be against that, too.

But I think this thread is a lot about wanting to make the draft system itself, which tends to get a lot of criticism, better than what it currently is. In the NBA, players need to register for the draft, so every team sees a list of players available through the draft before the draft begins. NBA teams hire scouts to watch college games and practices, high school games, amateur tournaments, pre-draft workouts, international league games, etc., and get much of their information that. But GMs can also read the newspaper, buy scouting reports, watch games on TV or in person, etc. that before a draft, even a team that has a relatively tiny scouting budget still at least knows the names and some background of the 40 best players registered for the draft. The BB draft is so far away from the way that, so I think before killing an idea because of one or two issues that some people may not be comfortable with, we should focus mainly on trying to find a way around real problems and seeing if there's a way to make a new idea work if we think it could make the game fundamentally better.

Yes I think we are different. It's my own problem that I have been working on IT security for so long that I see a lot of loopholes before anything is implemented. But that is beside the point.
I like fair game and that's why I don't like anyone doing mutual ties etc. TIE system is fine on it's own, but everyone should play the "guess what your oponent is doing" game.
In your last reply you were talking about lower leagues. What about the top league. I don't think that in direct competition there should be any friends. 3 teams cooperating for one teams success in top division already is a big deal. Even without draft you can play for the HC advantage. There were big problems with Italyan football teams fixing games etc. It has happened in other countrys aswell. Is that good for the sport? Even some referees in NBA were calling games for money.
Why do you think draft has no names atm + all the info is kind on vague aswell? Because draft info is not ment to be shared. If 3 teams invest 5k every week and get better info from draft than a team going solo and paying 40k. We have a problem there, don't we?
The day that BB announces direct trades between teams, is the day I will search for a new game. I tryed playing travian some time ago, but found out that 90% of the people on top were actually cheating. I knew I was going to quit playing because of that and wanted to see how long it takes for them to catch a cheater. They could not catch me for a month. I even had the same password on 2 of those 5 accounts. After a month I deleted them. No point in playing a game that has no GM knowledge, tools, or presence.

Almost everything you have said here is off-topic ;) (I mean about TIE and CT)

some time ago I wrote kind a nice counting how long it would take to scout whole list of players and how much money every cooperating team should spend on that... Other thing is that I pretty much suggested 3 steps scouting system and explained that is pretty much very hard to get some useful info by cooperating with other teams (I forgot to mention that every team get different game stats for the same player)... But if those friend are willing to spend 40k each for whole season to know some good players those could be drafted by other teams just cause they accidently scouted those or was lucky, so be it...

Why do you think draft has no names atm + all the info is kind on vague aswell? Because draft info is not ment to be shared. If 3 teams invest 5k every week and get better info from draft than a team going solo and paying 40k. We have a problem there, don't we?

So we offer now in the new idea of drafts scouting system that spending 40k (using 4 scouting point) you could scout 4 players once/2 players twice/1 player 3rd time per week. So here team spending 5k (1 point) per week would be able to scout player just once getting info about age, position and height (S,M,L,X,XL,XXL), so he wont get any real good info and probably would draft almost blind just knowing that he wanna payer playing as PG as example. SO if he want some more accurate info he should spend 10k so he could use 2 scouting point (that is needed for scouting second time same player) he would get additional info about that player rating, potential, grade.. And if he wanna really accurate info about him, so he`ll scout him 3rd time spending 40k (4 point) to get info about his skill (3 skills would be known) RB/ID/IDorOD/OD/PA (C/PF/SF/SG/PG)+JS+JR/IS (PG/SG--SF/PF/C). But he spent 3weeks and 55k to get info about only one player and what if he is unlucky and noticed after 2nd time scouting that that player is useless? While you can spend 40k each week and get 2 players scouted once, 2 scouted twice and 1 scouted 3times, but the main point is that after first week you have a choice from 4 players to scout 2 of them 2nd time then you can choose one of them scout 3rd time or after 1st week choose one player scout 2nd time and scout two players once from still not scouted players... My point is that you would have a choice with more possibilities to choose what you want depending on what are you looking for...

And if someone tries to cooperate, so they all have to scout all the Centers or PG or so on... twice to be able to compare their info spending lots of money and wasting lots of time for getting knowledge of just few players from all in the list. I don`t mind if they do this, cause it`s not worth that... Cause all the revenue could be taken just by one team from all cooperating ones and it`s always a chance that I`ll scout that player too and I`ll et better pick so they`ll get nothing from their cooperation. (and if they wanna scout all one position players twice so firstly they have to scout hole list once to be sure they will scout all Centers or all PGs or so on...)

And I still think there should be 60 players list so scouting would be more important as if no teams scouts there would be a chance that 12 best players wont be drafted at all.

P.S. By the way if game makes friends, makes community who shares one interest and even become friends in real life, so it huge success for the game.

Last edited by ZyZla at 2/12/2010 4:33:38 AM

These are interresting ideas you made, getting from scouted player more deep informations more players on draftlist which could be wasted and so on..

What I would like to focus on is the weekly schedule of scouted players itself. It doesnt make any sense to have here something like that unless it would offer any kind of interaction.

So what I mean is the list which would be filled by every week depends on how many players you scouted. If you would choose no interaction, scouts would just continue in theirs work as you suggest (1, 2, 3 scouting levels depends on how much money you will give them, more deep and wide their work will be that week)..

However you would have an option to focus on any player you choose by clicking on the button. So two of your scouts would spend there another week and uncover him on third level of scouting. If you have more scouts for that week, the rest would do random job as usually (there would be possibility that one of them would uncover another player on third level or just 1st), if you have just 1 scout, it would cost him two weeks of work to uncover that player.

What I mean by this is to have an option to hire as many scouts as you want, while they can do for you same work, but it depends on you how usefull they would be for you.

What I would like to focus on is the weekly schedule of scouted players itself. It doesnt make any sense to have here something like that unless it would offer any kind of interaction.

So what I mean is the list which would be filled by every week depends on how many players you scouted. If you would choose no interaction, scouts would just continue in theirs work as you suggest (1, 2, 3 scouting levels depends on how much money you will give them, more deep and wide their work will be that week)..

My point is that you would have list of 60 players from the start of new season. You would see just player number on the list and no other info. You could use up to 4 scouting point per week (1pt-5000, 2pt-10000, 3pt-30000 and 4pt-40000)

So firstly you would have to choose how much you invest. After you`ve chosen it from drop down menu page reloads.

List would look like this:

Nr.1 O O O
Nr.2 O O O
...
Nr.20 O O O
Nr.22 O O O
...
Nr.60 O O O

O indicates place there you can click to choose if you want to scout that player.

So if you use 40k it would look like and wanna scout players 1, 20, 21 and 60, so you click on them on the first circle as other two are not available till player isn`t scouted once (3rd one isn`t available till player isn`t scouted 3times) (first circle cost you 1pt scouting, 2nd cost 2pt and 3rd one cost 4pt)

Nr.1 O O O
Nr.2 O O O
...
Nr.20 O O O
Nr.22 O O O
...
Nr.60 O O O

So next week I see

Nr.1 v O O info: S, PG, 19 +stats
Nr.2 O O O
...
Nr.20 v O O info: XL, SG, 19 +stats
Nr.22 v O O info: XXL, C, 18 +stats
...
Nr.60 v O O info: M, PF, 18 +stats

I invest 30k that week, so I choose 3pt - 30 000$ from drop down menu and use my 3 scouting point. As I`m looking for a Center, so I choose nr.22 to be watched 2nd time and nr.2 1st time:

Nr.1 v O O info: S, PG, 19 +stats
Nr.2 O O O
...
Nr.20 v O O info: XL, SG, 19 +stats
Nr.22 v O O info: XXL, C, 18 +stats
...
Nr.60 v O O info: M, PF, 18 +stats

and so on...

I hope you get my point how it would actually work.

However you would have an option to focus on any player you choose by clicking on the button. So two of your scouts would spend there another week and uncover him on third level of scouting. If you have more scouts for that week, the rest would do random job as usually (there would be possibility that one of them would uncover another player on third level or just 1st), if you have just 1 scout, it would cost him two weeks of work to uncover that player.

What I mean by this is to have an option to hire as many scouts as you want, while they can do for you same work, but it depends on you how usefull they would be for you.

I mean no such a thing as you could watch same players spending 5k/week 3 week and reveal 2nd base info as well as no random accidently revealing 3rd or 2nd base info spending just one scouting point. Everything would be clear and simple

Last edited by ZyZla at 2/12/2010 9:32:18 AM

Well, the messages were too many and my time too little to read the thread, could someone make a summary? :)
My suggestion about the draft system: Why don't we pick 2 players instead of 3 every year. Everyone of us fires a draft every season...

I'd rather have 3 and fire 1, then only get 2, and risk the chance that 1 of those are bad and I have to fire him.

And there is no harm in getting 3.