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but you have to count how many teams of II next season can play well in first division...or they tanking and will be relegated??
because many managers can be promoted fastly spending much money for reach the limit, but after they can't stay in firts division...

I see you team...you are in playoff zone in III with a roster that any single team of my old IV division can beat, but take my same tv contract...thank of that you have a 12k arena in 5 season of game...in italy is impossible that...
don't let me laugh...please...

If you look at salaries alone, sure, my team is overmatched - there are only three teams in the series paying less for their top five than me, and six paying less for their top 8 and top 10. Luckily for me, the game is about more than which players on the court have higher salaries.

As for my arena, the reason it's to 12k already is that I have spent more money on expanding the arena than I have on the transfer market. Not symbolically, literally; my expansions total $3.565M, while my transfers are under $3.4M. My arena was already almost 12k when I promoted to III, so it's not like I've been sitting here and eating up TV revenue and just now building the arena.

after first 4 season I have a 10k arena, because I spent my money on it...but I have to stay in V division, because I coundn't spend much money for players, because I haven't that...you, after 5 seasons, have a 12k arena and have a -2M transfer balance, because you can be promoted spending less than me on salaries, depending of competitiveness of your leagues...

We can't speculate on that, future will tell. I believe some of them will play well, they know the step is high and try to prepare for it. They may get relegated at first and bounce back.

What I say is that there are seriously competitive teams in II much younger than before. It is new. I don't think it could have happened before, not to that extent.

What is new too is that top league teams have money problems :)
This is very new, it's a such a problem that they tank ! Many teams don't tank to win later but simply to survive.
Now mistakes cost them. Before, no mistake could be made that wasn't easily recovered from.
Several strong teams in the first 3 divisions have suddenly run out of steam financially and are in free fall now. It certainly has happened in Italy too.

D.III also has "young teams" rapidly rising. They are patient and not trying to rise too fast but they rise steadily.
They joined s12, 13, 14, 15 ! I am confident they will make it to D.II in a few seasons. Reaching D.I is super selective, they won't all make it and it is how it should be, super selective.

New teams now stand a chance, they were doomed to struggle before.

There are still some problems with the economy but it's not the market.

but the problem is the much attention we have to spend on economic management...I know that on a managerial game is important (I play several other managerial online game), but not at this level...

many people tanking, and BBs can't punish them, because in France or Italy is necessary to survive in high divisions...however they can give advantages to reach playoffs, and not to be 5th or be relegated...maybe prizes for playoff spots could be a solution for make better reach playoffs and not tanking...
but if they don't insert money in game, there will be always the same problems...

look at Spain, they had 5 season ago over 5k users, now 3k...because the are lame of that...

On tanking, I agree with you.

The problem with tanking is that it is a way of bypassing economic management !
Overspend, tank, overspend, tank, overspend, tank... And tanking is today with no doubt the most efficient way to run a team. I doubt the game owners wanted this. If tanking becomes widespread it may even slightly disrupt the economy.

But you have probably read the news. Bbs are discussing amongst themselves if a modification is needed or not.
Users have been vocal against tanking for a few seasons now.
BBs are only slowly with much precaution starting to envisage to have a chat about it one day...

So season 20, they discuss if a change is needed.
Being optimistic, season 21 news will be that they have decided a change is needed and will think about what kind of new rules set will be implemented.
Season 22 news, we will be informed that they need to work on the site performance that is degrading and they regret to have to postpon the release of several awesome new features.
Season 23 news, changes will be announced that will take place in season 26 so that everyone is warned in advance.

By 2014, rules against tanking may be in effect...

Why did Spain userbase shrink like that ? I recall they were up to 6k.

but if for last 4 seasons 5th place are better than playing playoffs, it's normal that teams don't want be competitive, but search the 5th place, tanking in last games...

however, in Spain I know that many team newbie leaves because was impossible for them resist in high division, because too much teams are at limit of salary, and they have no possibilities to make money...and if you stay ten seasons in V (or VI in this case), you decide to leave because it's not funny...

ps: this happened in Spain, because was the biggest community...later it will happens to Italy and France too, i'm sure...it's the reason of users don't increases, but remain the same, because newbies arrive and leave in 2 or 3 seasons..

Last edited by zecchin at 6/5/2012 4:25:07 PM

after first 4 season I have a 10k arena, because I spent my money on it...but I have to stay in V division, because I coundn't spend much money for players, because I haven't that...you, after 5 seasons, have a 12k arena and have a -2M transfer balance, because you can be promoted spending less than me on salaries, depending of competitiveness of your leagues...

Seriously, you joined the game in season 5, and promoted out of your V series in season 11. And here's the ratings you put up in your home game in the finals:

motion/ 3-2 zone
outside scoring: average(medium)
inside scoring: awful (high)
perimeter defense: average(medium)
inside defense: mediocre (low)
rebounding: mediocre (medium)
offensive flow: inept (high)

I don't know how much of season 5 you were around, so we'll just look at that as being your sixth complete season in BB. I joined after the All-star game in season 15(!), and in my first home game in the finals in season 16, here's my ratings:
motion/man to man
outside scoring: mediocre (high)
inside scoring: pitiful(high)
perimeter defense: respectable (medium)
inside defense: average(low)
rebounding: inept (low)
offensive flow: inept (high)

And by that point, I had spent under $400k on the TL over the course of a season and a half, while I had salary right around 60k/week. I'm sorry, but if you're going to talk about my roster and the competitive levels of the leagues I was in and then it turns out it took you 6 seasons to put together a roster that put together even those pathetic ratings, you shouldn't be speaking about the economy holding you back or competitiveness between our leagues.

Last edited by GM-hrudey at 6/5/2012 4:31:07 PM

Yes, it's natural. IMO, it is one of the remaining problems with the economy, the distribution of revenues.
It has been said countless times, successful teams should be better rewarded than less successful teams. But it is difficult and needs finetuning so as not to give successful teams an unsurpassable edge over newer teams.

I favor league position bonus, rethinking of arena receipts and free tickets for PO games (fans love me for that :p ), I'd do TV fees for PO teams, QF/SF/Finals.

and if you stay ten seasons in V (or VI in this case), you decide to leave because it's not funny...

True ! Especially when you realize you actually have very few options.
But I truly believe the situation has improved in that regard.

France has lost quite a lot, I think it went close to 3.5k. But really, I don't know why it went down.

because you played since season 6 (I play since season 5), and you know that level of V divisions increases a lot...but tv contract (except for the modific of season 11) remain the same, but salaries to win are more and more than season 6...so, as we can save money to stay in IV or III, new teams can't make it actually...so they leave...

@hrudey: I think I explained with this to you too the reasons of my valuations level when i've been promoted...in 5 seasons changes much things...level increased soon...

I will elaborate on what Perpete says.
hrudey, you can't compare the 2.

The game was different, many changes have been made, the economy is completely different hence why all these talks about how it was before...
In season 5, very few players had been trained, the few of them young and well trained were a pricy commodity. Players were far from as skilled as today. I am not even sure the potential feature was already introduced...

Players we routinely buy 200k today would sometimes cost 2M at the time. They were unaffordable for new teams.
Revenues were lower. Salaries were higher, you probably know that, salaries have decreased, I think by more than 30% overall.
So today, skills are much cheaper, I welcome these changes, it helps new teams to buy skills quickly.

It took me several seasons to afford to buy a player with a skill in the double-digit you know :)
I had a few but I had to train them myself.

So don't compare the ratings, you weren't around and it was very different, don't judge too quickly.
Italy was notoriously the most competitive league at the time, even in the lower leagues, this is true.
For a long time, USA was only around 1.5k users and not so competitive. It evolves over time, now the USA is very competitive too. Just to point out that the game evolves, situations change, the environment changes. Careful with the assumptions.