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The urban legends I´ve been talking to think about the cap as a soft cap only - there´s a border, after which training slows down so massively, that it´s hardly worth spending training minutes on the player anymore. I know several player that have been trained over the "cap" which received like 12-13 weeks of full training till they got their next pop, but they got it nevertheless. I´m not sure why the system should use a "hard cap" when the soft cap mechanism (and the age factor) will sooner or later limit the players skills theoretically anyways.

Even if there is a hard cap, it would be pretty hard to find evidence outside a straight confirmation from the BBs, as the training effect becomes increasinly slow after reaching the soft cap. Maybe JosefKa with his data could provide some insight in this (and technically speaking the hard cap is just a special case of the soft cap with the training factor reaching 0).

Would be interesting to know if after reaching the soft cap there´s a "one-time hit" in speed (such as 1/10 of the age / size limitations) or if the development over the soft cap is still a function of potential reaching 0 at some point.

Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 9/11/2012 4:28:15 PM

I´m not sure why the system should use a "hard cap" when the soft cap mechanism (and the age factor) will sooner or later limit the players skills theoretically anyways.

Maybe because BBs wanted to prevent that a low potential player like 6th man could be trained until star or even allstar? Granted, it would probably take 7+ seasons, but it could be done.

Actually I´d see that as a plus to the game.

I always thought that if a player has 15.4 in OD, he defends like that and not like 15.0. At least it's the most logical thinking. If his level of skill is anywhere between 15.0 and 15.9, but he always plays like his OD is at 15.0, that could be really bad from BBs.

One of the most interesting things to me is the chart for JS forwards. If the graph is accurate (I'll get back to this later), this would make it significantly easier to train short players in IS. Compare what a 6' 18 year old would get in two weeks of training:

One week IS center + one week JS guard 6' 18yo:
.60 JS
.44 IS
.16 JR
.07 HA/DR
.04 ID
Total of 1.31 pops (counting HA/DR as half each)

Two weeks JS forward training 6' 18yo:
.74 JS
.68 IS
.12 JR
Total 1.54 pops with more to difficult IS

As to the accuracy, I'm really curious what people who are more familiar with the database have to say. From what people have said in this thread it seems like it could be either way. The IS data for short players is probably exaggerated to a certain degree because shorter player will have lower IS on average, but it is hard to doubt that JS-forward training gives a good amount of IS.

You are not taking into account elastic effect,
the fact that the shorter 18 year old guys are almost always starting out with terrible inside skills,
thus, they will tend to pop faster at first.
I have a SG that popped 3 times in a row at Passing because he started out weak compared to his other skills.
Same goes for IS

1. I did mention this in my post. "The IS data for short players is probably exaggerated to a certain degree because shorter player will have lower IS on average"
2. Why isn't there a similar affect for IS-center training?
3. Players of all heights gain a good amount of IS off of forward JS training so it would still be worth it even if this was true.

I think your analysis is completely spot on. Now, as you both said, there are probably some uncertainties in the data, and the exact training increase v. height slopes might not be completely accurate, but I think the pattern is clear. JS forwards seems to bite the big one if you're using it for tall guys. Of course, there is less of an out of position penalty for playing a big man in the PF spot. so I can see times when JS forwards is good to do. Plus, it's a two position training, so you can add more guys to the mix, which can be useful if you have enough young guys.

But in the end, for big man training, the best way to boost both JS and IS is a combination of JS guards/wingmen, and IS@C.

For short guys, you can probably get a decent amount of IS training through a combination of 1v1f and JSf. You'll still get more training on that individual trainee if you do IS@C, at the cost of half the training slots, and more out of position penalty to performance.

Just posted a helper tool I made in Excel that converts the BB-Training Project analysis into a training modeler that includes the elastic effect. (229484.1) Hope you enjoy!