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BB Global (English) > Outside attack too strong ?

Outside attack too strong ?

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This Post:
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125704.328 in reply to 125704.303
Date: 1/25/2010 12:23:29 PM
Le Cotiche
III.1
Overall Posts Rated:
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The benefits of secondaries for C claimed here are just not apparent enough to BB managers so they get ignored in training. (and they are a pain to train) Simple as that. It's no use blaming the managers as short-sighted. We need a more apparent feedback system than the match rating.


i thought this was a thread about the fact that inside play is a losing strategy... isn't that the feedback we need?

This Post:
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125704.329 in reply to 125704.328
Date: 1/25/2010 1:35:27 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
I guess that it goes in general about big men and how they work on offense

From: Emilio

This Post:
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125704.330 in reply to 125704.327
Date: 1/25/2010 2:24:00 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
329329
A 3-2 zone against Look Inside is not necessarily a wrong defensive choice:
-> Very often playing LI to "surprise" your opponent means that the first surprised is you own team... so the wrong thing is the offensive tactic and not the defense. Players tend to do what they do better, despite your tactical option.
-> Tactics are not so important in BuzzerBeater, although people rely too much on them. You may choose a very bad defensive tactic and you coach will change it as soon as it is clear that something is going wrong. So many wrong "look inside" finally behave as push the ball or run and gun. Just take a look at the shot distribution at the end of the match, and you will see what tactics was actually employed and which was the wrong counter-tactic.
-> The inside attack team rating is imho the most misleading rating (and all the team rating are somewhat misleading). You can easily get very high team ratings by just amassing pure inside attack skill on the field. However a PF with some inside defense and good jump shot can easily balance the match.

¡Me aburro! (Homer Simpson)
From: JohnnyB

This Post:
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125704.331 in reply to 125704.330
Date: 1/25/2010 3:02:48 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
A 3-2 zone against Look Inside is not necessarily a wrong defensive choice:

-> Tactics are not so important in BuzzerBeater


If thats true then again something is wrong with the game. Tactics are really important factor to the real game so must be the same here even if we have different rules here.

Definition of PF: The player that have similar skills like C, but not quite so strong. He compromise that being able to play feather from the basket, (hit mid range shots, few 3pt) and be more mobile, but not so strong.

This Post:
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125704.332 in reply to 125704.331
Date: 1/25/2010 3:13:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155


If thats true then again something is wrong with the game.


I definitely do not think it is true, I completely disagree with the original poster, or at least your take on what he wrote. I think the issue is more that the new engine changed the dynamic of zones and many are still trying to get a grip on it.

A 3-2 zone can be a good choice against an inside tactic for many teams. For example, if I want to play a PG at the SF spot, I can quite nicely hide his poor inside d in such a zone, since most of the time my PF and C will guard inside plays.

A greater concern here is when the guards drive inside. The mis-match against the PF or C is usually too much for them to overcome. I don't know if that aspect of the 3-2 zone is too powerful.

Then again, if you don't have three players who can defend on the outside, a 3-2 zone is vulnerable to an outside attack.

So it all comes down to putting the right players in the right spots and choosing the right tactic to take advantage of your strengths/weaknesses. The game starts to seem pretty rich now, doesn't it?

Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 1/25/2010 3:17:38 PM

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
From: Emilio

This Post:
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125704.333 in reply to 125704.331
Date: 1/25/2010 3:50:59 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
329329
If thats true then again something is wrong with the game. Tactics are really important factor to the real game so must be the same here even if we have different rules here.

No, something is wrong with some managers, because tactics are quite useless if you don´t have the appropriate players. This is something basic in BuzzerBeater (and also real basketball).
The goal of the game is to find the perfect team to best fit the game engine, and not to change the game engine to fit to your supposed "perfect team".
Definition of PF: The player that have similar skills like C, but not quite so strong. He compromise that being able to play feather from the basket, (hit mid range shots, few 3pt) and be more mobile, but not so strong.

Another basic and very nice feature of BuzzerBeater is that you can design you own players and make unique skill combinations as in real life. Player positions are just ideal but you can "play" and test your own inventions.

¡Me aburro! (Homer Simpson)
From: JohnnyB

This Post:
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125704.334 in reply to 125704.333
Date: 1/25/2010 3:59:57 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Of course you can, but at the end of the day its all about wining. How we will do that? whats the easiest way? Whats the faster one? Its not like our options are equal.

Tactics should be the decisive factor for a team to win a game when 2 teams are close. Also tactics should punish the managers that are choosing the wrong 1 too. I cant accept that you can win for example using 3-2 zone or 1-3-1 against LI/LP, but you cant when you use 2-3 against RnG or motion. Just doesnt fair to me.

From: pmfg10

This Post:
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125704.335 in reply to 125704.331
Date: 1/25/2010 4:20:07 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
206206
A center has to have good inside skills and some jump shot, passing and driving.

From: JohnnyB

This Post:
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125704.336 in reply to 125704.335
Date: 1/25/2010 4:21:00 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
No argument at all here. Just dont make C's like guards...

From: Emilio

This Post:
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125704.337 in reply to 125704.334
Date: 1/25/2010 5:03:02 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
329329
Tactics are useless without the adequate 5 starters and 5 backups.
Tactics are just one part of the game with a relative importance, not even close to be the most important, and it is not so decisive because of the coach tactic changes during the match.
Good equilibrated players will fit all tactics, so they will play well even if the manager chose the "wrong" initial tactic. A bad selection of players for a particular tactic is punished by the game engine.

The faster you learn this, the faster you will get to the top and win games.

Those who still think that setting a tactic in BuzzerBeater is just going to the tactic page for the next match a set a tactic regardeless of your players, are missing most of the tactical depth of BuzzerBeater. It is like playing chess without knowing that the Queen can move in all directions.

¡Me aburro! (Homer Simpson)
From: JohnnyB

This Post:
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125704.338 in reply to 125704.337
Date: 1/25/2010 5:20:15 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Well 1 part of tactics (as the real life) is to have the right players to use them. But you cant resist to exploit for example the poor big men of the opposite team even if you dont have the right players to do it. You are talking for the good players that the 90% of them cant bought from the majority of the teams. We all know that the ideal is 1 player have 20 on all of his skills, but we all know that we cant have that.

O fcourse if i play against much weaker team than mine i should win anyway, couz after all good players is the 1st

We dont have the chance to change tactics during the game, so i would love my trainer to listen my advices, couz he is just a machine, he knows only 0 or 1. So i want my trainer to follow strictly my instructions. If i am wrong, then i can use the ratings to evaluate what i did wrong, and the next game i will adjust my team/tactics.

Maybe after all the problem are the ratings. They dont give us the proper feedback. The less that we are impact the game the less fun we get


Last edited by JohnnyB at 1/25/2010 5:21:38 PM

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