BuzzerBeater Forums

after reading numerous posts about it, and contributing to them myself, I now come up with a sugestion that might be worth considering:

Keep the system of election every 2 season, but ADD the option of an extra election at the start of the seasons in between.
When will there be an election?
- if the current NT coach is set to inactive (NT team is bot team)
- if the current NT coach decides he wants to quit.

So if the NT coach decides he wants to fullfill his job for which he was elected, no extra election occurs for that country.

Possibly this might be expanded to having an extra election also in the case:
- the NT coach's popularity drops below 30%

First of all I agree with you guys.

And I don't see why we shouldn't have them... We are already in big disadvantage by not having played NT scrimmages, missed a lot of NT points... And we should get something for that...

You didn't miss a lot of NT points by not playing scrimmages, because scrimmages barely contribute to the NT rankings. I have posted this example before, you will see here how strange the NT rankings are decided:

34 Misr Africa 1 9 650 833 100% 69.6
35 Nederland Europe 8 3 1176 1037 71% 67.4

You see, Misr played 10 official games, only won 1, Netherlands played 5 officiale games, won 3 of them. The rest are scrimmages. So even though the Netherlands have a 8-3 record (5-1 from scrimmages) they are still ranked below a team which played more official games.

Possibly this might be expanded to having an extra election also in the case:
- the NT coach's popularity drops below 30%

This is hard to implent, exspecially at country where we don't have that meany users. Because it's easy to get the popularity below 30 if you only have about 30 voters.(I could imagine a scenario where the losing NT coach, who lost by 2 votes, just tells everyone that they should vote negative, which leads already to about 50% popularity if all the others voted for the current NT coach)
When most of the BB country are getting bigger this might be an usefull option though.

Possibly this might be expanded to having an extra election also in the case:
- the NT coach's popularity drops below 30%

This is hard to implent, exspecially at country where we don't have that meany users. Because it's easy to get the popularity below 30 if you only have about 30 voters.(I could imagine a scenario where the losing NT coach, who lost by 2 votes, just tells everyone that they should vote negative, which leads already to about 50% popularity if all the others voted for the current NT coach)
When most of the BB country are getting bigger this might be an usefull option though.

might be true, but I can't see decent people voting negative on their coach if they have no reason for it exept that someone is telling them to. I'd expect the one trying to haul people over to vote negative would loose popularity himself. The ones who voted for the current will not change their mind that easy, so he should at least keep 50% anyway...
30% is no fixed number and it could become 40% or 10% just the same...

I think your example only works in lands where people's minds can be 'currupted' .
In this case the one who wants to use this trick will make sure to do it before the elections, so he will be elected.

Anyway, this third option is something to be considered and there will be some thinking needed by the BBs before they get to that point. The most important part of the sugestion was the first part. ;)

Maybe they don't give that much points, but see this:

35 Nederland Europe 8 3 1176 1037 71% 67.4
38 Srbija Europe 7 5 1146 1006 64% 62.9
73 Bosna i Hercegovina Europe 1 5 585 747 34% 30.8

We woud have at least 10 points more if we played scrimmages... Serbia had only 1 or 2 (I don't remember correctly) official victories, all the rest are from NT scrimmages... And look where they are, and where are we...

You didn't miss a lot of NT points by not playing scrimmages, because scrimmages barely contribute to the NT rankings. I have posted this example before, you will see here how strange the NT rankings are decided:

I dont think so...

Here is one example...
68. Panama - official matches 0/7 - SC 1/3 - Total matches 1/10 ..... 42,9 points
69. Singapur - official matches 1/7 - SC 0/1 - Total matches 1/8 ..... 42,3 points

I know that difference is minor (0,6 points), BUT this shows that Official match vs Scrimmage rating is not so minor...
The important fact is that Panama is better positioned only because they played MORE matches than Singapor (never won Official match), ... It is clearly seen specialy cause Singapur WON 1 Official match, and Panama's only win is in Scrimmage...

Edited by nanda (1/22/2008 1:18:22 PM CET)

Last edited by metuzalem at 1/22/2008 1:18:22 PM

the calculation of NT points is very strange..it depends also on strength of the team..for exemple:

18 Tounes Africa 7 5 128,8
21 Nigeria Africa 10 2 125,7

they played the same official matches (11) with the same opponents..but tounes has more points because it is weaker,even if nigeria won more matches..so it is difficult to say how much is important a friendly for NT points..

Edited by mr_burns (22/01/2008 15.03.07 CET)

Last edited by mr_burns (goodbye BB!) at 1/22/2008 3:03:07 PM

I dont think so...
Here is one example...
68. Panama - official matches 0/7 - SC 1/3 - Total matches 1/10 ..... 42,9 points
69. Singapur - official matches 1/7 - SC 0/1 - Total matches 1/8 ..... 42,3 points

I know that difference is minor (0,6 points), BUT this shows that Official match vs Scrimmage rating is not so minor...

Check out the continents. Africa is the only continent where every single team played 10 official match. You dont see any team of Africa in the bottom 40 teams of the ranking, even though most of the teams belong there. (there are a few exceptions of course)

Of course, scrimmages do influence the rankings, but winning 6 scrimmages and 3 official games and losing 1 scrimmage and 2 official games won't even give you more points than losing 9 official games and winning 1.

So I think the result of the game isn't even that important as well, otherwise this wouldn't be possible since Nederland won 3 official games and lost 2, and Misr won 1 official game and lost 9. It's more the amount of official game played who give you the points instead of wether you won or lose.

(34 Misr Africa 1 9 650 833 100% 69.6
35 Nederland Europe 8 3 1176 1037 71% 67.4
)

When you compare the teams of every continent (so about the same amount of official matches (of course exceptions there again)) with eachother you will see a difference, but still I think the formula should be changed there.

Edited by PatjeBono (1/22/2008 3:37:07 PM CET)

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 1/22/2008 3:37:07 PM

I know... And I agree... There are some unknown things on the system of rating NTs… perhaps needs some more developing or at least explanation…
But the thing is that I was referring the problem with our NT coach who went inactive, so we are stuck with only 1 SC instead of couple more... The whole point is really not about rankings... It is about finding out skills of players in NT and their performances which should be done in SC games... That is the sole intention with my argument that Scrimmages could help our NT... Of course, there is also some prestige in rankings, but at the moment it is same for me if my NT is on 74th or 72nd place...

Yeah that's true, but the seeding for the next WC qualifications will be based on the NT ranking, so that's where rankings come in.

Although I have seen some great idea's on the Belgium forums I believer, who are in the same situation, their NT coach turned bot as well. But some guys there said that they should just make a scouting team, which is the only way to try to keep up with the other countrys so that you can present your list of known best players to the new NT.

As i know, in czech republic, when they realize that NT coach is inactive, they started to do scouting on their own. Now they have a database, but no acces to the team, so the players and also new coach can not gain match experience.