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So if the best overall defender will guard the best offensive player, what's the difference between box in the perimeter and box inside?

The difference is that with one box your defender will guard the best Guard, and with the otehr one the best Big.

dont think so, i got this (http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/79045930/boxscore.aspx) in which the PF guards the SG rival, so is not the best big man, (that team has a really and NT C)

is the one the engines choose, not necessarily the BIG man in the inside defence

I never said that with inside box +1 the best inside player will be guarded, did I?
I just said that in one defense your best defender will guard the best guard and in the other one the best big.
During the last weeks, even before this thread started, we discussed and analized games in my federation. We came to some interessting conclusions. Like some time ago when I took a lock at 3-2 ;-)

So if the best overall defender will guard the best offensive player, what's the difference between box in the perimeter and box inside?

The difference is that with one box your defender will guard the best Guard, and with the otehr one the best Big.

dont think so, i got this http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/79045930/boxscore.aspx in which the PF guards the SG rival, so is not the best big man, (that team has a really and NT C)

is the one the engines choose, not necessarily the BIG man in the inside defence

I never said that with inside box +1 the best inside player will be guarded, did I?
I just said that in one defense your best defender will guard the best guard and in the other one the best big.

that´s the point, is not the best big, if u check that teamalready has a big big C, but the inside box chose to guard the sg instead, that´s my point



Last edited by miqe at 4/1/2015 10:11:26 AM

I don't think that's the case, if I'm understanding this correctly, the best big was defended by the 1 and the defender was adequate enough so the offense was moved away from the big to SG, which resulted in the SG's higher attempts, unless I'm misunderstanding this all.

Last edited by Knowledge at 4/2/2015 8:32:06 PM

the thing is, all the shots by the SG were guarded by my PF, 22 shots all checked

the rest of the team change, looks like in zone cause never guard the same man, so my guess is that the man to man chosen was SG versus PF

this actually goes back to some of my previous posts

the assumption is made that - because player X took the most shots, he is the best offensive player that the And1 defender should be defending...... This is a wrong assumption....

Iin actual fact this is not always true and from what i can see with Box defenses, a very incorrect assumption.
Logic would suggest that - if your best defender totally smothers your opponents best offensive player, he should in theory take zero shots.
when the best offensive player is guarded too well, so the offensive team looks to another player to take shots. Which is why you will often see strange results in terms of box scores.

ill just state it again so its easy to identify for future readers.
With a box defense.... in the final box score - the player who took the most shots in the game- is NOT necessarily the best offensive player whom the 'And1' was defending

Last edited by Coach Regan at 4/3/2015 8:51:13 AM

the thing is, all the shots by the SG were guarded by my PF, 22 shots all checked

Yes, that's because the two boxes are switched... or the manual text is wrong.

I already reported it to Marin several weeks ago. From my data, the manual is wrong about the two boxes.

It works like this (my opinion):
Inside box+1:
Best defender defends the best outside scorer and the box moves to the paint.

Outside box+1:
Best defender defends the best inside scorer and the box moves to the perimeter.

You played an Inside box+1. So for me, it's no suprise that your PF defended his SG. I have more such games listed in my fed. We made some tests this season.

this actually goes back to some of my previous posts

the assumption is made that - because player X took the most shots, he is the best offensive player that the And1 defender should be defending...... This is a wrong assumption....

Iin actual fact this is not always true and from what i can see with Box defenses, a very incorrect assumption.
Logic would suggest that - if your best defender totally smothers your opponents best offensive player, he should in theory take zero shots.
when the best offensive player is guarded too well, so the offensive team looks to another player to take shots. Which is why you will often see strange results in terms of box scores.

ill just state it again so its easy to identify for future readers.
With a box defense.... in the final box score - the player who took the most shots in the game- is NOT necessarily the best offensive player whom the 'And1' was defending

im not telling opposite, im just cheking who guard man to man and whodid in zone, not checking how many shots but who guards,

its too casualty 22 shots guarded by the same man if that was a zone,

logic says that was the man to man situation

no black needed

the thing is, all the shots by the SG were guarded by my PF, 22 shots all checked

Yes, that's because the two boxes are switched... or the manual text is wrong.

I already reported it to Marin several weeks ago. From my data, the manual is wrong about the two boxes.

It works like this (my opinion):
Inside box+1:
Best defender defends the best outside scorer and the box moves to the paint.

Outside box+1:
Best defender defends the best inside scorer and the box moves to the perimeter.

You played an Inside box+1. So for me, it's no suprise that your PF defended his SG. I have more such games listed in my fed. We made some tests this season.

this could explain the fact


keep us notice if you get an answer ;)

It works like this (my opinion):
Inside box+1:
Best defender defends the best outside scorer and the box moves to the paint.

Outside box+1:
Best defender defends the best inside scorer and the box moves to the perimeter.

The way you describe it actually fits the name of the tactic much better than the manual does. It looks very much like the manual has just got them the wrong way round, as you say.

maybe ... and PROBABLY... but that logic can also be explained away by 2 different examples.
1)
i like to think about when i used to play social basketball - and we had a guy on our team who was a really really bad defender. and he was PF.

So it usually took the opposition teams about 5 mins to work out he was bad defender. So guess what? Their SF would get the ball in the corner and drive or post or do whatever against this guy all game (actually i usually ended up on help defense but anyways)....
Box score in those games would have been PF defended SF 22 times. Could be the game engine does the same?

2) - When i run the stats against a game from last season - where i played 2-3 zone - my PG (starter and bench) defended his SF for all 14 of his shots. Same deal as a box n 1, the offense has simply found a 'chink' in your zone defensive setup and has decided to exploit it continuously. How often this happens though? Not sure.

In your game, probably PF defended SG - MAYBE?

Further to this - As an example of how its never straight forward logic...., i played OB1 earlier this season -
http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/79205108/boxscore.aspx
His best offensive player was Perez - and he took 40 shots - all of his shots were defended during the game by everyone on my team. PG, SG, PF, C, SF. So this means he shot against the box right?
well i dont know - because EVERYONE on his team, took shots against ALL of my defenders. NOBODY took shots against just one position.
There are no patterns, no logic, each defensive position seems to guard against most if not all defenders. The PF's and SF's guard the least amount of shots, (11) but these are from 4 different offensive positions. The SG's guard the most number of shots, but are still from 3 different offensive positions.

This could mean a myriad of things - it could mean that sometimes the player guarded by the 'and1' gets away from his defender and only takes open shots - or is defended by someone else. It could mean that Patient offense doesn't work the same way with Box defenses. It could mean - well.... anything!

which i guess is my point - one should never assume anything with the box defenses.