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Is BB competitive for new users? (thread closed)

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201579.34 in reply to 201579.30
Date: 11/6/2011 5:49:29 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
1) As you are only being argueing against the first systme suggested and ignoring the second, I'll repeat it;
"Reset all team's assets every few seasons."

It's impossible, so it's out of discussion.
And it's bad idea.
Why is it "impossible"?
It is easy to implement, and will make the game more interesting.

In addition, I've also suggested "a sudden career ending-injury" for players.
By that, a richer team will lose (by definition of their players' value) a more expansive players, and the competativeness will be achived.

soft-cap.

My story was about hard cap. You talk about soft cap.
My answer is that soft cap in this game practically exists. But it's hidden in formula of wage. If You want to have player who has +1 in every primary skill, then his salary is higher by 50%. It works exactly the same as soft cap (with extra tax/penalty), bacause very often You have to pay 150% of salary instead of 100% for player, who has 104 skill points instead of 100. It's huge difference of salary in comparision to quality of player.

Somehow, the NBA thinks different (as the salary argument you brang could be implyied to the NBA as well), and finds the caps needed for improving competativeness.
Somehow they believe (for more than 25 years, and with them other leagues in the USA) that the open market and the different salaries will not do the job.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 11/6/2011 5:54:54 PM

This Post:
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201579.35 in reply to 201579.31
Date: 11/6/2011 5:50:36 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
154154
And we wee how it is working, right?
It works great in the NBA.
A small market like Cleveland got to the finals several times.
Boston (A hugh-market) had been on the buttom of the league for several years.
New-York, the largest market by far, had not been a contander for years.
etc...

The strike does not makes this system a bad one.
This is why they want to keep it. Even the teams from the bigger market knows that in the long run - a more competative league makes more income to the league.

They are arguing about the money split between the teams' owners and the players.
Totaly irrelevant to this discussion.

So great that there is a lockout... Enough said. if it works somehwere then it is rather NFL than NBA. However the point is in simulation games there are no big markets, no small markets and never will be.

This Post:
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201579.36 in reply to 201579.32
Date: 11/6/2011 5:52:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
154154
I'm not building my financial foundations and later on focusing on training my players, knowing the fact that sooner or later there's going to happen something like a 'soft wipe'
If you like the new competative system than stay.
If not then don't...

Those who are leaving the game are from two main groups:
1) Those who got bored from it. [Maybe a more competative game will change this]
2) Those who see that the game cannot be played with a real chance to compete [And here a more competative system will sure improve the situation].

Who are you to tell others people to stray or leave and to claim there is somthing like new competitive system. When such a thing as a thoughtful system doesn't even exist in your head?!

From: miwman

This Post:
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201579.37 in reply to 201579.11
Date: 11/6/2011 6:00:10 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
2626
To start a lot later then another team will for sure mean that you will be at an disadvantage. But that is not saying that there is no way to get to their level. It just takes a lot of time and a lot of planning.


finally someone said it, and what I would like to emphasize here are two boldwords

Of course such a goal requires certain skills that new managers are not capable to develop in a short period of time. That is why they resign. Those who find sheer plasure at the same time learn great respect towards the game and accept the rules which leads them to a lot of seasons before they achieve success.

A success achieved in this way tastes better.

PS: gotta go take a nap, I'm almost drunk as a lord :) ehhh... usually it happens when you see your good buddies once every year, or even more rarely

Last edited by miwman at 11/6/2011 6:01:09 PM

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201579.38 in reply to 201579.35
Date: 11/6/2011 6:01:24 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
So great that there is a lockout... Enough said. if it works somehwere then it is rather NFL than NBA. However the point is in simulation games there are no big markets, no small markets and never will be.

1) The lockout is not related to the fact that the caps makes the NBA a more competative league.
They keep it (for more than 25 years) just because it does that - creates a competative league (which due to that is more watched, and by that its revenue just risen up).

2) A big market in BB is the team who has more financial means.
They will keep this difference and more w/o a more competative system.

As proved, under current system the bundesliga (the "great 8" at least and for example) consists from teams created not later than season 4.
It is not "by chance" that 13 seasons has no single representative there.

Message deleted
This Post:
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201579.40 in reply to 201579.38
Date: 11/6/2011 6:04:04 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
154154
I can't explain it to you.

This Post:
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201579.41 in reply to 201579.34
Date: 11/6/2011 6:08:07 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
12061206
Why is it "impossible"?
It is easy to implement, and will make the game more interesting.

It's impossible because of two reasons:
1) it's impossible ;-)
2) it's bad idea.
For example because then all effort of all managers to develop their teams will be wasted.
It isn't sprint, it's marathon.

Somehow, the NBA thinks different

I'll ignore every "NBA argument". Realities in NBA and BB are completely different. And good things in NBA could be bad in BB. In NBA we have the same teams for long time, there are only 30 teams and we want every team could compete with others. In BB we have many users, new users and new manager could join in every moment.

Last edited by B.B.King at 11/6/2011 6:10:30 PM

This Post:
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201579.42 in reply to 201579.27
Date: 11/6/2011 9:30:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
2525
1) As you are only being argueing against the first systme suggested and ignoring the second, I'll repeat it;
"Reset all team's assets every few seasons."


Great. Let's destroy all semblance of long term planning and make this an instant gratification game instead because we somehow want the newer users to compete quickly.

Why bother training players if you're going to lose them because of a reset? And don't bother saying sell, because the economy is going to tank before a reset and no sane person is going to buy. Why bother expanding your arena when it's just going to revert back to it's small size tomorrow? Why bother splashing out for exceptional or world class staff if we are going to end up with our bad staff members soon? Bad idea that I don't see happening in RL as well. I'd wait for the day NBA franchises are forced to release all their best players, give away all their finances and staff. It's just not workable and completely against the objective of the game.

We are saying the good newer teams eventually get to the top, a check of my local league will tell you that it happens. All it takes is time and planning, elements that a lot of people do not possess.


This Post:
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201579.43 in reply to 201579.24
Date: 11/7/2011 12:17:31 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
587587
2) Again, "amazingly" a team from the first division, that "amazingly" [I do like this word... :+)] are in this game since season-3, is against a new system for improving competativeness, and against a system that causes this disadvantage to those teams who started after the first few seasons.

Please, I already warned you to not get into that line of argumentation. You are basically saying that older teams are not allowed to participate in this discussion, since they are just protecting their advantage. That is silly. You do not understand the motivations of others.

But I am very much against resetting the game all the time. This is a long-term game by design. A change you propose (which was flogged to death in the Suggestions forum) would require a huge change to just about everything in the game. You want to remove all long-term planning from the game. That is just not going to happen. Join some other game with a short-term game play.

As we can see, in Season 18 we have 7 teams that participated in the top league also in Season 13. What is more interesting is that the average team is getting younger (in terms of starting time, all teams are of course now older by five seasons), although the median team both during Season 13 and Season 18 started during Season 4.

What had been seen, is that teams not been beaten by new teams, but where just leaving the game.

Not the case here, only one of the teams has stopped playing (and that was one of the stronger sides).

And I will repeat a main concept here:
In case that the first league teams are there solely due to better managers, and not (by any chance) due to the season they started playing at, then there is no reason why not to reset the teams' assets every few years.

And I am saying that concept has no place, and will have no place, in BB given this game's design.

From: miwman

This Post:
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201579.44 in reply to 201579.41
Date: 11/7/2011 3:00:09 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
2626
Just as B.B.King pointed out it's not a sprint but a marathon,
nice conclusion btw.

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