BuzzerBeater Forums

Hey, I was not proposing a solution, I'm nobody how could I do a thing like that! I was just trying to make people see that there's a problem... and trying to explain to people answering every post with the same sentence ("all teams in your league are in the same condition, so why whine?") that the problem is not in the league itself, it's in the market and in the impossibility to grow as a team at the same speed we grow as managers.

You started by IV, I started by VI.

So you mean that until you are in div 4 you make less profit than I do initially because I start in div 4?

Sure, one in IV earns 75k from TV contract, one in V earns 45k from contract and if one starts by IV with a 25k roster, he earns more than one of VI with a 25k roster.

That's spot on the point.

The maximum revenue you can get in Div. V or VI is far lower than the one you get in Div. IV or above BUT when you're given your first 18 players they have (almost) the same salary, it doesn't matter if you're in Div. I,II,III,IV,V or VI.

It's an easy sum to make: same expenditures for salaries but very different revenues due to your geographical position.

The point is, as it has been made before, that:

- all users in Div. I in the countries of BB: around 1500 (adjusted for bot teams in top leagues)
- users in Div. V in SPA and ITA only (taken as the two biggest countries): around 7500 (adjusted for bot teams)

Here we see the same people discussing who are in top leauges and have zero knowing of what playing in a lower league means. It'd be interesting to see BBs and GMs waive their top league team and start with a Div. V or VI team in either Spa, Ita or Fra for example. This way they'll probably realize that for 80% of the players this game is frustrating.

A possible solution? Take away the 1 promotion - 4 relegation ratio. Make it 2 and 3 and possibly restructurate the league system from 1:4 to 1:2.
This will exacerbate some players in big countries (i could well end up in Div. VII or VIII this way), but it'll create afar more dynamic game and restore the fun that has been lost in the past months - also for a relative newcomer such as myself.

My roster cap is closer to 500k. I just only use 200k of it.
So my point is that I could spend 500k in salaries, but I don't need to, and so I get to keep some profit each week to try and improve.

I'm not saying the economy is the same, I'm just saying that I think that there would be a way to run a team effectively and still make a profit

You use 200k ....because you can.
You can because your nation now hasn't high level of team.
So you can stay in II division with this salary cap and at the same time,do a little treasure that you'll use when you are ready to win.
Good strategy,nothing to say but we can't do the same thing because ( i repeat) using this kind of gameplay,we finish in low divisions...
Instead you can use it ,win games,keep merchandise and contract tv of high level,many people in palace with high prices and so on...
i don't say you " you wrong"...i say you " don't compare the economic situation/managment team between australia and italy,for example.
i hope you understand what i'm saying even if my english isn't so good

edit ; can you explain me when you say "my cap is closer 500k"....???
Your incomes are 500k considering tv contract,palace and merchandising?

Last edited by TheIsoTruth at 8/19/2010 6:46:08 AM

I just dont see this being a massive problem as you do I guess.

We just have different opinions.

And my point about someone promoting every year was a bit of an ass comment, but it was meant to show that while you continue to say you are at a disadvantage and cannot promote even with genius management, someone does promote, every year. So, if they can do it under the same circumstances as you, why cant you do it?

I never said "i'm not going to be promoted due this disadvantage"... We are talking about differences in incomes and consequential difference in "purchasing power" on the global market! Again, don't write things i don't have said. Maybe someone else wrote it, but just because i share one point with them, doesn't mean i agree completely with them.

I still havent once seen a good argument as for why small country managers and big country managers should have 100% even 'market power.' Time for analogy :P Its like saying that NBA teams and NFL teams (or in your case EPL teams and Euroleague BBall teams) need to make the same amount of money, eventho they have no direct competition with each other.

You're trying to make fun of my analogy with a wrong analogy!... because it's true, NBA and NFL don't have direct competition, BUT they DON'T share the same player market! While "Big country" and "small country" do.
You should really stop using analogies :P

So if you could, prove to me why you need to be able to buy player X just as much as random d2 malta guy needs to get player X. It most certainly isnt because you will be facing him someday and he had unfair advantage in gaining players, because that will never happen.

We are not facing in a competition but we are facing each other on the market, that's the point. If the other manager had to work hard to get his money and he had more than me because he worked harder, very well, he'll win the bid challenge on the market and that's ok.
But a lot of times it happens that i'm facing a user that got his money easily, because he started in a high division with high incomes and he doesn't even have to have an high level roster to stay high in his league because most of the other teams are bots. By the way, i'm not saying it's his fault!!! He's just playing according to his financial possibilities, he shouldn't limit itself just to help me.

I know Italy/Spain middle divisions are quite a bit harder than everywhere else, but I cant imagine them being so much harder than every other big country that they are the only ones who run into this problem. This is a generalization, but mostly I have seen comments from Italians and Spanish users on here, which makes some sense as they DO have the hardest road to the top. But more than anything, it sounds like a lot of them are frustrated at not being able to beat the other users in their country, and without knowing a way to get out, this is where they arrive.

Well, i don't know the other country situation, because i don't play in their leagues. Maybe the other countries (medium populated ones) are not yet facing that problem because they don't have as much active teams as italy/spain (4000-5000). When other countries will reach those numbers, we could compare.


Last edited by RainMan13 at 8/19/2010 7:16:56 AM

I used the same sentence several times, because it looks like you (plural) hadn't read it. Besides this sentence I wrote here many other thoughts.
However even if there are some changes in this game you have to fight with your bad conditions for several season, because any changes should be expected step by step. Hardly any can expect immediate significant changes which totally turn around global economy and improve your situation.
So, if the games is boring for you at the moment you can choose from 2 basic possibilities:
1) accept conditions for the moment, do your best for your team within them and wait for any future changes, eventually you can suggest some improvement, therefore there is suggestion forum, nobody is "nobody"', anybody can have inspirational ideas
2) leave the game (and eventually start playing new team in a small country so that you can profit with advantages of small country)

Last edited by rwystyrk at 8/19/2010 7:40:22 AM

- the current deflation which is undermining the value of training,

i actually think deflation makes training much more important
not training for trading, but training for your team

that's because with low prices the good players are less likely to hit the market, so you must create them by yourself

Last edited by mark_lenders at 8/19/2010 8:04:58 AM

My roster cap is closer to 500k. I just only use 200k of it.
So my point is that I could spend 500k in salaries, but I don't need to, and so I get to keep some profit each week to try and improve.

I'm not saying the economy is the same, I'm just saying that I think that there would be a way to run a team effectively and still make a profit :)

Naker dont take this as a ''bad'' comment to your team or how you manage your team, but did you realized what you said?

You compete on Australia a community about 700 users(medium one, but i ignore if its increasing or not) and from my point of view your team salary is ridiculous to the division you are playing. On Italia or Spain most of the teams in Div II they pay more in salaries to stay competitive and not to relegate to Div III and on the other hand there are lot of teams on Div III-IV that also pays more salaries than you, trying to promote to Div III or stay,doing well on cup or both.

So why a team from Div II from a medium country can pay only 200k on salarys an make a 170k of profit? Of course from your part is a smart actitude if you dont go back to Div III, but im really astonished. If you were on Spain or Itally you would be paying 1,5 or 2 times more on salarys to stay competitive in Div II and most probably you would lose some money per week unless you advance some rounds on cup. Same thing for Div III with 200k salaries i doubt you promote to Div II unless you trained really well, because remember that people enjoy more staying competitive on high leagues than trying to earn 100-200k per week if that means losing lot of matchs.

Its really surprising there can be such a difference in a Div II from Australia(medium country) to Spain or Itally and i dont want to imagine the differences between the divisions III-IV. Since most of the teams on Itally and Spain from lower divisions see how they cant progress because of the economic problems, related to the low incomes we have on this countrys. For me its not fun to play a game where there are all this imbalances between countrys, I would not care if our incomes were higher or at least the costs were lower. Let's say the truth, the most affected teams from the raise of the salaries were teams from lower divisions on big countrys who were operating near 0K to stay competitive and now we are operating in red numers, since on other countrys, teams pay also more in salarys but they still have more incomes

We got a really serious economic problem, its not fun and fair that the 2 biggest communities on this game most of the teams are playing under 0 K as i said before around 0 to -200k our incomes are really low related to the costs that we have to pay because remember that managers prefer to play a game to have fun and on BB that means stay competitive and trying to win the maximum matchs you can, because its a really low% of managers who enjoy wasting 2-3 seasons to have better conditions on the future.

Last but not least i will also consider to leave the game(some seasons ago wanted to be supporter) as others said if the economy stays like this for 1-2 seasons, its not fun for me to always be on negative, im on -380k and even if i sell some player i trained i did my second best season on the cup arriving to the best 64 managers of 5700 and its also ridicoulous that such a big country for advancing on cup i only earn 50k, when its harder than on other countrys.I'm sorry if it seems a bit ''pessimist'', but im talking from the experience since managers on BB unknown the hard situation that we are suffering on Itally or Spain and I imagine also on the others big communities too.



Last edited by Marot at 8/19/2010 10:00:42 AM

I used the same sentence several times, because it looks like you (plural) hadn't read it.

Funny, it seemd to me that nobody was reading my answers to this kind of sentence.

Hardly any can expect immediate significant changes which totally turn around global economy and improve your situation.

But I don't expect a major changing in a small amount of time... First because I know that nothing con be revolutioned so fast without the risk of a worse condition later, second because I saw the time span needed to, for example, change the draft organization.

So, if the games is boring for you at the moment you can choose from 2 basic possibilities:
1) accept conditions for the moment, do your best for your team within them and wait for any future changes, eventually you can suggest some improvement,
2) leave the game (and eventually start playing new team in a small country so that you can profit with advantages of small country)

...and why do you think I'm still here, trying to do my best to make everybody understand that something is "wrong"? I'm not used to chicken out uncomfortable situations, even in a (still enjoyable, or at least better than others civilisation based) online game. I was just trying to do the only thing that I can to improve this game. Say what I think could be better.

P.s.

therefore there is suggestion forum, nobody is "nobody"', anybody can have inspirational ideas

Come on, you know what I mean, I was just saying that there's been a whole bunch of more expert users saying the same thing as me and trying to propose possible solutions, I don't think everybody was waiting for my words.


Last edited by TheMaxx © at 8/19/2010 8:33:58 AM

remember that managers prefer to play a game to have fun and on BB that means stay competitive and trying to win the maximum matchs you can, because its a really low% of managers who enjoy wasting 2-3 seasons to have better conditions on the future.

But for me "wasting" 2-3 season (or even more) sounds like best strategy in such a situation you are facing in lower leagues of Spain and Italy.
I have played any other sport manager online games. And all the time I try to do first some steps which brings me longterm advantages and I don't need to be competitive very quickly.

You are wright. Maybe the problem is that in Spain or in Italy in order to be successfull with that long term strategy you are asked to wast 3 or 4 times the time you invest in do the same in you play in other country. Sometimes that difference is what make the user think where is the difference between invest time and wast time.