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Draft shame

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28346.36 in reply to 28346.35
Date: 5/7/2008 9:35:13 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
I'd like to emphatically second the suggestions of Solana Steve (and others) with regard to height.

Virtually the entirety of the league in which I play attempted to draft players based on positional training schemes, and used the game suggestion as to preferred position. Virtually every single owner ended up with a first round draft pick whose height made him untrainable. This is a recipe for needless user frustration and serves no competitive purpose that I can think of.

I recognize that there are good reasons to conceal a lot of player characteristics for draft purposes. Height, however, should not be one of those hidden characteristics. It's absolutely fundamental to many players' draft strategy; moreover, it's impossible to imagine a scenario in which scouting WOULDN'T produce this kind of information. Even if the exact height can't be revealed, a S/M/L system would surely be workable.

This Post:
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28346.37 in reply to 28346.35
Date: 5/7/2008 11:08:21 AM
AS Barroom Heroes
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
10201020
Second Team:
Lone Pine Productions
Exactly. If I train a guy for 5 seasons and his best skill in a level 8 or 9, then I've wasted a whole lotta time.
I don't know how competitive the league he plays in is, but if I try something like that, I will waste a ton of tome, money, and lose alot of games.

This Post:
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28346.38 in reply to 28346.37
Date: 5/7/2008 1:07:08 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
9696
well...
what can I say...

I had 12 !! 5 star players to rank, 3 of them had A-, which I put in the back of the 5-star row.
I also had 12 !!! 4 star rated players to rank. I was in for some realy good players in my draft.

Even though I had 15th pick in my league, I drafted my 1st choice and 4th choice, so both 5 stars. Both prety much suck. Agreed they have a few respectable skills, but if you look at the skillsets, they are not going to play in my team at all.
Last year I had a 4 star player picked, and he played a lot, and will still play in my team, while none of these 5 stars is going to make it!

How is this possible? Easy, it's scouting. Since the scout only scouted 1 game, and maybe the player was invited for a private session, it might be that the player was in topshape for that game and session, while he is usually not THAT good.
It is scouting, and it is estimations, it's not pure numbers that will be given here, and even though I am truely VERY dissapointed with this seasons drafts for my team, especially after seeing I had 24 players with 4 stars or more, it's just the way it is, and I feel it should stay this way...

They are not your friends; they dispise you. I am the only one you can count on. Trust me.
This Post:
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28346.39 in reply to 28346.38
Date: 5/7/2008 4:28:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
well, maybe im biased, because my draft went great (hall of famer, was my first choice, picked 8th, 5 star A+ 5 potential). There's no doubt, that scouting is very important, maybe too important,maybe my pick should not fall to no. 8 because no other team had scouted him twice. And i agree with the fact, that the skillsets are very random. but i do NOT think that this is a reason to critcize the system, well, at least not this much.
there is no lottery! so, maybe you could say, that instead of a lottery you have an unsure scouting system, it's coming down to luck. The other thing is, that an no.1 to no. 3 pick does not always guarantee you an elite player and the ranking is not as clear as you want it. just look at sam bowie over mj. you gotta be lucky sometimes.
so, i do not think, that the system should be criticized to much, but you could always try to improve.

This Post:
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28346.40 in reply to 28346.39
Date: 5/7/2008 4:57:42 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5454
Ok just to those who say that in RL the superstars are always drafted as 1st pick:

Michael Jordan was a 3rd Pick
Scottie Pippen was a 5th Pick
Larry Bird was a 6th Pick
Karl Malone was a 13th Pick
Clyde Drexler was a 14th Pick
Julius Erving was a 12th(!) Pick
Dwayne Wade was a 5th Pick
Tracy McGrady was a 9th Pick
Dirk Nowitzki was a 9th Pick
Manu Ginobili was a 57th(>>!<<) Pick
Kobe Bryant was a 13th Pick

so this is just a small list, i'm sure there are some more, but please don't say now that the players above are just average players, and none of them has been drafted as a 1st Pick. so you see that also in RL it's some kind of lottery in it:)

As in RL the thing even goes one step further:

Ben Wallace for example was an undrafted player who signed in as a free agent !

Last edited by Undertaker at 5/7/2008 5:23:20 PM

This Post:
00
28346.41 in reply to 28346.40
Date: 5/7/2008 7:02:25 PM
AS Barroom Heroes
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
10201020
Second Team:
Lone Pine Productions
But this has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
The problem is that scouts are giving the same grades to players with similar total skills, only some of them are set up in a manner that makes the players very very promising, others are set up in a manner that make them completely useless.
It's like a real-life scout recommending a player who has great interior scoring and defense and bad perimeter skills (say dwight howard for example), and failing to mention that the player is 6'2 (and consequently useless). I would be pretty pissed if I were a GM that is paying that scout.

This Post:
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28346.42 in reply to 28346.32
Date: 5/7/2008 7:59:06 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
the draft helps teams that invest on it: I have picked the best players of my division (1-8-12 in my list preferences)even being the last team to pick (won regular season)

this is not luck at all.

This Post:
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28346.43 in reply to 28346.1
Date: 5/8/2008 12:58:08 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
i think you should sue who you paid to do the scouting.,

he is sure doing a damn lousy job :D

cheers mate!

This Post:
00
28346.44 in reply to 28346.42
Date: 5/8/2008 2:31:43 AM
AS Barroom Heroes
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
10201020
Second Team:
Lone Pine Productions
Again, this is not the point of the thread (unless you were only addressing the point made by the poster you replyied to).
The person who started this thread also picked the first player in his list, which should have been a great player according to his scouts, but instead is useless. That is the issue.

This Post:
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28346.45 in reply to 28346.44
Date: 5/8/2008 3:00:01 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
sometimes i wondering,

the scout lists a player playing as or positioned at center but his height is either of small forward or worst a guard.

i would understand his potential since he might have develop skills for a center since maybe he started his playing days in the little league when he was 8 years old and already his a big buy but along the way of adolescent hood he just didnt grew anymore. but the draft scouting for me has to be precise base on a general aspect not just skills.

i mean yes a 6 foot 6 shooting guard or even 7 footer small forward if he has the skills. but to say 5 11 center would be too much. and his set skills wouldnt even be a thing to look at if the better skills are somewhat you cant use.

i think there has to be a change? in how listings go too.

its kinda dumd to think your scouting a guy, who probably was playing guard but his skills playing a pf or center is better than their present big men which outshines his skills or talents as a guard since his lousy at it. then list him as a center rather than a guard?

just erase this if it doesnt go ith the topic

This Post:
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28346.46 in reply to 28346.45
Date: 5/8/2008 3:04:20 AM
AS Barroom Heroes
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
10201020
Second Team:
Lone Pine Productions
That is exactly the point of the thread. It does go in the topic.
The problem is basically that the scouts aren't considering height and age at all when giving the rating of a player.

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