BuzzerBeater Forums

yes this is true. Thanks for pointing this out. Player X may not foul much, and then everybody else in the team gets better, and so he becomes the weak link, and as such, his fouls increase.
I dont think i can really factor this into any stats. But how much would it increase?
There are lots of variables at play here. Whether the players play with out good defenders, the style of defense, the quality of the opposition..., whether or not they played out of position because they were getting training.

But if there is a large enough data pool, these factors would be smoothed out.

I could always just take players from the transfer market. ...

it may be, that, foul frequency may be a simple factor, which people have not realised yet.

it could be a simple ratio of Expereience, ID, and Handling. If there was a statistical link between these three stats and fouls, for say, 10 players, and then i applied the same for 20 players, 30 players and still find a link, then we could make some assumptions that those things are a factor, as well as the hidden 'agression' stat.

Sorry! Just thinking out loud here. Im thinking it could be something simple, a simple weighted ratio or something like that.

But maybe its not. i really dont know. I will have a look into it and see what comes out.

i messed up a google spreadsheet right now, but looking at BBB matches(30 points difference) there seems also no correlation betwen quality and Fouls. Actually without this game (38851182), i would even say that bad defenders foul less ;)

I hope this Link work:

https://spreadsheets2.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak9m...

I just take games with 30 Points differents, because i think with such a high margin there should be a difference in the ability to score.

I put Shots and Freethrows in, to get an estimate of possesion but this isn't included in the formula right now.

results better teams foul 15,7 times each game, worse 15 times.

Could be a point for my theory that skills doesn't matter.

i had one wrong value in, the bad team made slithly more fouls.

Also i added now the average Fouls per possesion, where i counted an offensiv Rebound as a new Possesion also there the bad team foul sligthly more(0,3 times over 100 Possesions), but those difference are very small(1-2 per cent) i will continue to make this list a bit and maybe we could see a pattern.

And hopefully the teams look for foul proone players the same way on the TL, i know that some top teams are pretty strict at it^^

defensive ratings of the players on the teams

if you win with 30 points your ratings are better ;) If your defense wasn't dominating, then your offense was so dominating to make even less fouls on this theory to fix the thing. And if you think you just won, because of the Rebounding difference, you could look at the fouls per possesion.

I don't like the team rating that much, because they don't tell a lot anyway.

experience level (you could get average age, although a fairly inaccruate representation of experience stat)

If you like to count the average age i wish you a lot of fun, you need to consider all the player playing and there minutes to get a number you can not really trust.

Experience could be a factor for it, and would favour mostly the stronger teams, because top teams in the BBB are nearly impossible to build with young players.

You might need a large sample to rule out the impact effort and game shape probably play.

effort is a not a term in the bbb, and gameshape currentspondent to the abilities so it would affect it like additional skills and if that made up the difference betwen the team i wouldn't look on that game because it get close.

I had an sample over 30-50 games, where effort wasn't also nearly a non factor.(yeah i know old engine^^)

Yo peoples, you are really hijacking my thread, nah'mean?

There is this hilarious "hidden aggression" attribute, that I would like to train away - what you are talking about has really nothing to do with my problem, or more precisely maniacs that foul out in virtually every game no matter what their skills are and no matter what skills or tactics the opposition uses.

There are plenty of players that average like 6+ fouls/48 minutes for their whole career and thats something that should not exist.

God bless you!

Like if its related to OD rating vs. flow

which doesn't reflect the playmaking of the bigs, which could be quite effective. You can not even really predict if a team is affective to a fcp with the flowand your OD rating.

or ID vs. IS]

line up one good and a weak center against balanced, you get decent rating but the opponent scores on the weak link quite well.

haven7t you noticed when you play a monster big (or against one) and the defender is highly outmatched EVERY time an inside shot misses its a foul????

i have notice that they get rare, but sorry everytime a foul that is so far away from the truth. You could look at nearly of every game out of my example, in 90% of the cases the centers are outmatched and have some miss shots.

[qI think this is common knowledge. So that to me makes it pretty obvious that the matchup plays a role, atleast on inside shooting fouls.]

yes shooting fouls occur lot more after miss shots, and "and 1" are still pretty rare in the engine. So the relativ amount of the missed shott who occur is higher because of the rarer even of a miss shot - but this didn't lead to the point that train your defence you make more fouls. I just think that BB Players are pretty smart at fouling and foul so hard that you can not make an +1 that often.

PS: i found my old cheat and uploaded it:
http://www.https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak9msOS7DxCIdHVFSUN5Tm9WdTBuS3Iyck5WY3d6Tnc&hl=en_US#gid=0]

Edit: also how you like to group the ratings, do you want 100 games where respectable high play against average low? The Points reflect quite well if an offense work, and also considers stuff like missmatches, was it an outside or inside shot etc.


Edit: (362096.1) Look at my ooutside shooting and their OD rating, consider that they play at home and with more effort. Now look at my 3point percentage and say me that i was lucky or that this was clear with this rating. I had several bad missmatches outside even against a bot, but i had big who can shoot the rating don't know about but thx to the engine he scored like hell(till an guard comes into game who could shoot)


Last edited by CrazyEye at 8/5/2011 11:27:38 AM

ha i did think of this before soz about that!

If i do any research into it, ill start a new thread in the general forums.

I think Crazy-eye is taking it very much from a 'team-game-strategy vs other team-game-strategy perspective'

Which isnt wrong! Its totally applicable. But ill probably take more of an individual approach, and ignore strategy and opposition. For the time being anyways :)