BuzzerBeater Forums

We once had one of the greatest guards in the world in Joe Bronson. Today, we don’t have an elite player at any position.

If he was so great, why wasn't he so good? I mean certainly an "elite" player should have shot better than 39% in season 16. And the big games against Poland? 14/37. Yikes. I don't know how to define "elite" anymore, because ESPN ruined the term, but I think our players are significantly closer to the best than in season 16. The difference between Zita and Tanner/Moore and Urbanek and Nielsen is smaller than the difference between Wisniewski, Turbato, Tapia, and Gornitz and whoever the hell we sent out at PF and C in season 16. Oh yeah, and we played Grubbs at SF against Zuya vs. Spain.

Just scanning the TL, there are currently 33 players with at least 12 IS and 17 OD, I see a Slovenian guard with 18 OD and 20 IS, a Honk Kong guard with 19 OD and 17 IS, a Hungarian guard with 18 OD /15 IS /13 ID, a Polish guard with 18 OD /15 IS /16 ID, a Chinese guard with 20 OD / 15 IS / 14 ID. We don’t have a single guard that can defend these players, and very few that can score efficiently on them.

Here was season 16: Just scanning the TL, there are currently 600 players with at least 18IS. I see a Chilean big with 20+IS, another Chilean with 13JS, 13DR, and 19IS, a Polish big with 20IS, 19ID and 17RB, and an Italian big with 20IS, 18ID, and 20RB. We don't have a single big that is worthy of washing these guys balls.

As for Poland, if I recall, they didn’t win gold with vastly superior talent. They had HCA and were able to TIE virtually every game they played, in the same position the USA would have been similarly dominant.

Yeah, except when they came back with the same players at the next worlds and won gold again without HCA.

I think you're trying to argue (correct me if I'm wrong) that we had one of the best rosters in season 16, and since then everyone else has passed us by. I think we were way behind in season 16. We're closer to the best now, but we still have a ton of work to do.

This is all tangential to the point though. Whether or not we were better off or worse off in the past, you said in your speech your goal is to make the semi-finals,

I'm a few beers down, but if you could find where I said that in my speech and quote it here, that'd be great. I believe I said "competing for a semi." That's different.

China made a commitment to conserving enthusiasm last season. At the risk of advancing with three losses, against a certain CT, they TIE’d, defeated us, and advanced to the semi finals, ultimately falling to Poland. If the US were in a similar position, would you handle things differently?

No. I think the only chance you have at "competing for a semi" is to carry as much enthusiasm as you can into round two. I was pretty clear on the offsite with my stance to TIE game 1. I can't imagine a scenario where a team can "compete for a semi" and normal more than 1 game in the first round. They'll get crushed in round 2.

Last edited by magiker at 9/20/2013 2:41:30 AM

What will you do uniquely to make the NT more successful than it would be with another coach, both during this term and in the future?

Alright! A question that pertains to this election!
It's all about trying to develop better players:
1. I think I have more experience than most when it comes to putting in the work to train NT players out of position than most other managers. I've trained a 6'0 guy at C for three seasons from ages 22-24. I've trained a 7'1 guy at PG for a season at age 21. And I'm training two 23 year old bigs at PG this season in the NBBA, while trying to stay afloat. I'll let you know how it works out (probably not as well as your team). Outside of Lucas Ray, has anyone else spent more time training out of position for the NT? If we're going to get better players, with better overall skills, we're going to need to spend a lot of time training out of position. And I think it helps to have someone guiding that process who has still been successful at that exact same thing with their club team.

2. I've been a scout for a lot of the 22+ guys for the past couple seasons. I seem to be the only candidate aware of what types of players we have, and what's in the pipeline. In fact, I seem to be the only candidate that realizes the types of players we're up against as well. Well, I bet the Dutch guy realizes that. He seems cool.

3. I haven't really talked about tactics much, although I'm glad you brought up the previous question. At least for this term, I think a better use of enthusiasm and some small differences in the players we put on the roster can help. At least for the short term, I think I've got a good handle on which builds are successful in a LI offense and which aren't. (Don't worry! We'll be trying to develop multi skilled players, not just LI focused ones).

4. I love America more than eminence. To be fair though, that doesn't make me unique.

5. As U21 coach I had 4 seasons of constant communication with managers training players of several different ages. I've realized how crucial it is to keep on top of all the players that are being developed so each season the team is good enough to compete. This requires quite a bit of long term team building and planning (which separates me from at least 1 other candidate).

Thanks for the questions SM, keep firing away!

Last edited by magiker at 9/20/2013 2:46:47 AM

I just noticed that none of the Top 5 U21 teams in the world (Italy, Russia, USA, Latvia, Phillipines) have a National Team that is ranked in the Top 10. I think this is a reflection of these countries encouraging the primary skill-heavy "arms race" of U21 to trainers of high-potential young players rather than a balanced build for players early on.

You know, I was thinking about this before I saw the question, and I'm inclined to agree with you.

A recent example is David Aquino (27260671). A manager on the offsite commented that he would train OD/PA for a season if he bought him. Our U21 manager's response? Aquino will "get OD and PS training this season over my dead effing body."

As Coco pointed out, this isn't a great example. But I get your point, and there are a lot of good examples of this problem each season.

should the U21 team take a (relative) back seat to the National Team when it comes to high-potential players in the hopes of creating world-class, salary efficient players (ie emphasizing training secondaries at a young age rather than waiting to do so once they hit 22 years old)? And if so, how would you work with the U21 coach to enact such a plan when your respective goals are at least partially conflicting?

Yes. I bought Bello at the end of his 19 year old season and trained a lot of subs... much to the dismay of fewmit, so clearly I think it's a good idea. One thing we implemented two seasons ago, and something I think we need to continue, is having a "NT track" group for our scouting process. These players are usually the 18 year olds with the most NT potential. Jfarb usually handles these guys. Especially for the 18 year olds that are going to end up in the America's tournament, I think it makes sense to try to take the best guys away from U21 and try to more effectively develop them for the NT. I've actually been creating the scouting groups for some time now, so I'll continue to make that "NT track" group and give it to jfarb. Screw fewmit. Nothing he can do, regardless of who's elected as the manager.

Last edited by magiker at 9/20/2013 2:58:56 AM

Screw fewmit.

I'm guessing this is purely sexual, and not an attempt at a personal attack? If so, sexual harassment is absolutely acceptable. I, for one, am aroused by such brash sensuality. I'm sure Fewmit feels the same way.

I don't want to debate you, I'm not a candidate, but I have to address a few points.

I think you're trying to argue (correct me if I'm wrong) that we had one of the best rosters in season 16, and since then everyone else has passed us by. I think we were way behind in season 16. We're closer to the best now, but we still have a ton of work to do.

No, I don't think that we had one of the best rosters in season 16, and that isn’t my point. You think we’ve improved relative to other countries since then. I think the results speak for themselves. In S16 we wouldn’t lose to Egypt, or on a TIE/CT against China. This isn't to say the NT hasn't made great strides, it has, but I think it's disingenuous to say our training regime has outpaced Chinese farm teams. Regardless, everyone agrees we need to close the gap between the best countries and ourselves.

This is all tangential to the point though. Whether or not we were better off or worse off in the past, you said in your speech your goal is to make the semi-finals, and you don’t know that we’re good enough to get there.

I'm a few beers down, but if you could find where I said that in my speech and quote it here, that'd be great. I believe I said "competing for a semi." That's different.

My goal for these next two seasons is to compete for a semi-final at worlds. I don’t know if we’re good enough to get there, and I’m cautious because I’ve been guilty of overestimating our team in the past.

With sound tactics and some stamina/FT training, I think we can compete for a spot in the semis.

Enlighten me. What’s the difference between “your goal is to make the semi-finals, and you don’t know that we’re good enough to get there” and “I think we can compete for a spot in the semis” “I don’t know if we’re good enough to get there”.

If you mean that you’d conserve enthusiasm and be attempting to win the semi rather than sacrificing enthusiasm just to get there, I like your stance.

Thanks for the questions SM, keep firing away!

Endearing.

I love the NBA and cannot stand Stern. I hate the Knicks.
Hamburgers are my favorite food.
Soccer is for girls.

;)

Better. :)

First off: I love me some soccer.

Adchester:

Who could know them better than me? By knowing them so well I'll obviously give us the extra step up ;)

But what I am arguing is that when we get to that point of having a player like that, who's to say that isn't an outdated build? If we had players like that I wouldn't be arguing about this at all and we wouldnt have this conversation about different player types right now. What we are arguing about is the fact that we continue to be like CR and Poland but lack to have players even like them. So if we can't train those types of players why do we try?

Honestly, I'd be shocked if either of those players were ever ineffective or outdated at the NT level. But I don't think we should build a strategy around a scenario that starts with "what if the best players in the world are outdated in a few seasons?" A well rounded guy with 147 skill points is always going to kill us until we develop similar players. You're going to eventually have to play M2M, and we currently have exactly 1 player in the entire USA that can guard him. That's our problem. We need better players.

And... we CAN train these types of players. Why try? Because I don't see what's so special about the European teams (aside from less competitive D1 leagues... which is another conversation) that they can and we can't. I'm not ready to give up. I think it's still our best strategy.

Here's where I'm getting at with why try. Something has kept is from reaching this type of player. What is it? We have yet to get there and one thing that could be different is the trainers we use. We advise on using advance or superior trainers (with good reason) but those trainers do not get these players to those levels. So therefor we need to make the best players possible with the trainers we advise to use. That forces us in a different direction of training. We need to approach it differently to create players that are better but maybe with less needed pops. I'm not going to argue and say those players you pointed out aren't great, they are, I just believe there are other ways of doing it.

I respect a manager which big brass balls and a deep, deep voice who sees what is important and takes it. If you were to convince me you were the sort to do such a thing by, I don't know, committing to CT your TV games this season, that would go a long way toward securing my vote.