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Lets talk about SB

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This Post:
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262742.37 in reply to 262742.32
Date: 11/1/2014 6:29:50 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
234234
High SB and 3-2 will be strong against LI or LP. Just wait a little bit ;)

Already done in PL last week (75326632)
I don't expect much SB but lower the shots inside the paint, the fear factor.



I am sure, that having way much higher wages does the trick.

The question is - can it be successful against an inside team with similar payroll. Not in one single game, but in a long run. GM-Manon had such games like this (72467508).
I do not remember how expensive was his team in comparison with competition. GM-Manon was successful to the level of getting into the play-offs. Respect. It was not an easy path he chose (I do not want to diminish the achievement but some could question if that would be possible in more competitive nation - USA, Italy, Spain, France etc.) . That is something some of us claim - different paths leading to game success should be similar and they are not now.

It is great that in this game we can find different goals and satisfaction from reaching them - homegrown teams, playing 3-2 motion and so on. Most of players play for less sophisticated goals - to win, and most of players believe that the best way to win (with a big margin) is to use an inside tactic and m2m. It might be that most of players are wrong (also the very successful ones).

It is basketball game simulation but most of all game based on economy. Most of players are trying to achieve one thing: best possible results for given budget or from the other perspective pay as little as possible to achieve given sport result.

So I would like to add one more thing to the list of problems to be dealt with:

Tanking should be less profitable.

It kills very often competition. Makes many games boring - making people less committed.

If we look at the game from the economic perspective - the best way to make money is to loose games. In other words the best way to win is to loose. Accumulate money and with them in hand be able to win on court. It is the case in leagues I, II, III, IV - everywhere.

The only position that could be more profitable than being last with minimal payroll is league champion (promotion bonus, extra revenue in the next season). Doing best to win but failing in the final is so much less profitable than loosing every single game - that it pushes people to tank. I could say also that moving to tanking also reduces the commitment to the game - no short term competition. That could also lead to quitting the game. Tanking can push people who deal with tanking to quit and people that tank to quit.

@GM-Manon

Why are you trying different goals than the designed - winning league and B3? Isn't it because it is one sided and that the only way to do so is to go for an inside tactic+m2m like 90% others?

Well, it looks like it is much to long post, and that I have still my work left aside. It also looks I've written a post relevant more to the other topic "the top priority should be..."

Last edited by picia at 11/1/2014 6:32:40 PM

This Post:
00
262742.38 in reply to 262742.37
Date: 11/1/2014 8:29:06 PM
Infested Warriors
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
775775
High SB and 3-2 will be strong against LI or LP. Just wait a little bit ;)

Already done in PL last week (75326632)
I don't expect much SB but lower the shots inside the paint, the fear factor.



I am sure, that having way much higher wages does the trick.


(http://www.buzzerbeater.com/league/1125/overview.aspx?sea...) finished 22-0 with 650k~ payroll against 800-900k~ .

Now I'm paying too much in the Bigs cause in TL were no bigs with high SB and low IS. Can't create for tomorrow from training one of my personal taste. Now i'm training a SG with very high JR.

This is my last Off Topic.

This Post:
00
262742.39 in reply to 262742.38
Date: 11/1/2014 9:09:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
234234
High SB and 3-2 will be strong against LI or LP. Just wait a little bit ;)

Already done in PL last week (75326632)
I don't expect much SB but lower the shots inside the paint, the fear factor.



I am sure, that having way much higher wages does the trick.


http://www.buzzerbeater.com/league/1125/overview.aspx?sea... finished 22-0 with 650k~ payroll against 800-900k~ .

Now I'm paying too much in the Bigs cause in TL were no bigs with high SB and low IS. Can't create for tomorrow from training one of my personal taste. Now i'm training a SG with very high JR.

This is my last Off Topic. :P


Very good season, my congratulations, great effect for the money - I am not taking credits away from you. Correct me if I'm wrong - I thought that you were not playing 3-2 zone defence with high SB against LI very often in the previous season.

I was only saying that we could say that 3-2 defence with high SB against LI/LP is successful after given respectable number of games where teams with similar salaries and enthusiasm can deliver decent result. The last game you've shown looked to me like racing VW Beetle with a Porsche.

This Post:
00
262742.42 in reply to 262742.41
Date: 11/3/2014 9:56:54 PM
Infested Warriors
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
775775
In no way shape or form i REAL basketball is the 3-2 zone a premier defence for defending the paint. It just isn't EVER. If you could be assured your opponent can not shoot from outside you will use a 2-1-2/2-3 defence and or just play man to man and float/sag and deny the paint and entry passes and force the opponent to shoot jumpers.

I've been dreaming with a 2-1-2 zone since Season 3. My personal favorite to play in RL.

This Post:
00
262742.43 in reply to 262742.41
Date: 11/3/2014 11:31:24 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I'm glad you are making headway with shotblocking. But 3-2 becoming a premier shotblocking/inside attack stopping defense is a 100% complete horrific failure to simulate the game of basketball.

It has become alien-ball and has nothing to do with the real life game anymore.


Is this the point the simulation stops being realistic?

I want to say that it's my impression (based strictly on random recollections from my time pre-GM hat, since we get no extra inside knowledge as staff) that Marin has said that actually modifying the game engine itself may be beyond what he'll be able to do. I think making certain skills more effective by counting more for how things are calculated is possible (which I think the SB changes were), but revamping the zones themselves to represent a more accurate version of the zone may be impossible. I hope I'm just misremembering though.

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