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A team that will just enter your league will be balanced as well, but with players that will cost much less, and by that it means that their quality will be much lower.

which mean he loose less money, or gain more.

A lossing team will get less money from tickets and such.
A team that is new also would have much less seats to have "Arena size" big enough to have the same income.

How can they do it? They need to save a lot of money to get to the roster's value that you have.

they would need to do it even more, to get the same quality with my salarys. So a cap wouldn't help. The exchange of the roster to adjust to the new salary cap, would be even more expensiv for him cause he could rarely keep some player, who he had in div 2 with a div 2 cap

Sorry, but again I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.
1) When getting to Div-I from Div-II he will have the cap of Div-I.
2) This is only a suggestion to handle the problem, we can bring other suggestions to the bigger issue disucssed here - "making the game competative for new users" - but first we need to discuss whether it is needed.
3) In any case, a cap will assist here, as the new team in that league will probably be on the incoming side of the Soft-Cap's tax, as they will probably have much cheaper roster.

They just cannot do it. It will take them ages.

imho the championship boost is pretty high, which makes it pretty hard that right(or easy to keep the superior position). But to compete with the rest, and stay ind ivision isn't that ocomplicated or impossible as you say.

So, bring the information (described before) for the worst 8 teams in your league (or any other). The names are not important of course.

1) When getting to Div-I from Div-II he will have the cap of Div-I.

ok again an example, lets lock at this player:

Jump Shot: strong Jump Range: respectable
Outside Def.: strong Handling: respectable
Driving: average Passing: strong
Inside Shot: tremendous Inside Def.: sensational
Rebounding: prodigious Shot Blocking: mediocre
Stamina: average Free Throw: respectable

Experience: strong

i think a good starter for a div 2 team with a salary cap cause he ask for 50k salary. In div 1 he would compete against 100k salary center with cap, who are also maxed in value for minimal salary from the rich team. Now you had to get a new one, and probadly you had do do it on all positions. While actually you can have a more fluent promotion, and maybe add 1-2 stars instead of replacing an salary optimised team.

3) In any case, a cap will assist here, as the new team in that league will probably be on the incoming side of the Soft-Cap's tax, as they will probably have much cheaper roster.

why now and not before? I have trouble to understand it, especially since a hard cap will only raise the income of the rich team who excell it.

2) This is only a suggestion to handle the problem, we can bring other suggestions to the bigger issue disucssed here - "making the game competative for new users" - but first we need to discuss whether it is needed.

how about, giving each team every season a standard lineup, don't allow transfer. So everyone handling the same, and can only develop through tactic and training during the season. Every other system, you don't come in one league and have a 1/16 chanche of being champion. I mean a managing game, is about making the right choiches to be stronger in the future, ensuring this makes it nearly impossible to give everybody the same chanches at the begin of the season.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 11/4/2011 6:42:34 AM

i think a good starter for a div 2 team with a salary cap cause he ask for 50k salary. In div 1 he would compete against 100k salary center with cap, who are also maxed in value for minimal salary from the rich team. Now you had to get a new one, and probadly you had do do it on all positions. While actually you can have a more fluent promotion, and maybe add 1-2 stars instead of replacing an salary optimised team.

Sorry, but again I'm not sure what you are saying.
1) In any real-leagues, when a team is promoted it will need to make a big roster change.
2) That 50K player, will probably will be a great backup in the his new DIV.
3) He may have a very intense "summer" replacing more players than current system (and as I wrote above, I doubt that, but he will have more chance staying in that league due to the cap system, which is much more mportant.

3) In any case, a cap will assist here, as the new team in that league will probably be on the incoming side of the Soft-Cap's tax, as they will probably have much cheaper roster.

why now and not before? I have trouble to understand it, especially since a hard cap will only raise the income of the rich team who excell it.

Ahh? the soft-cap is defined upon sallary or player's value assesment or both.
A rich team will have better players, and by that players that cost more.
Hence they will be on the paying side.

Everyone tries to maximize skills-to-money.
More money does allow you to maximize it more, but just to have better players (that costs more money...).

2) This is only a suggestion to handle the problem, we can bring other suggestions to the bigger issue disucssed here - "making the game competative for new users" - but first we need to discuss whether it is needed.

how about, giving each team every season a standard lineup, don't allow transfer. So everyone handling the same, and can only develop through tactic and training during the season. Every other system, you don't come in one league and have a 1/16 chanche of being champion.

This is not about a new team in DIV XXX taking the cup and beating the hell out of a team which is at DIV-1.
It is about the chance to someday, and not in a new era, that first team could compete with agianst the second team.

2) That 50K player, will probably will be a great backup in the his new DIV.

he was 20min backup at the last BBB, and not that unsuccesful ;) Secondary bring a lot into the game, thats why a salry cap work more for more multiskill then for making money equal.

Everyone tries to maximize skills-to-money.
More money does allow you to maximize it more, but just to have better players (that costs more money...).

today you have the decision to get more primarys, for a cheap price and paying more for salarys or buying more expensiv secondaries to have a lower paycheck. second option will be gone, with a salary cap, even when this is the possibility most team who promotes and then be competive choose(and still earned money, not championship teams but not in fight against relegation also)

Let's try something else - can you bring the amount of seasons each team in your league (on last season) has been in BB and the place they've reached (on that season)?

I don't have the time to compile such information, but I have previously collected some information about the starting times of the teams (mostly for the highest league in Suomi, SM-Koris), which you may find interesting. Check the links.

Translation:
Kausi == Season
k == short for season

Season 13 stats: (155611.1)
Season 13 stats: (155611.6) (same as first link, includes II division)
Season 17 stats: (155611.20) (includes new teams for s18 and the div II finalists in s17)

In season 13 the median team of top league levels in Suomi:
season 4 / div IV ...... SM-Koris
season 4 / div IV ...... division II
season 6 / div IV ...... regular season winners in division III

In season 17 the median team in SM-Koris was still from s4/IV, but the average team has got younger. (Of course, the teams are actually 4 seasons older now... but you get the idea.)

In addition, here's a plot of the cumulative wins in regular season for the top 17 teams in SM-Koris history (teams with more than 50 wins in regular season). There is some nice info on how new teams have slowly gained ground in the top league (you can find the starting times/league levels of most of these teams in the linked messages): (http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2540/smkorisulwinsinre...).

Conclusion: It's a rocky road to the top, but it can be done.

Last edited by GM-WallyOop at 11/4/2011 12:35:16 PM

Let's start from the information I've asked you kindly to bring.
When someone is evading from answering a question, twice, I know that I got to something.

Well, I took a look at your league you played last year (just the "great 8" - your conference), and wanted to see whether I had reason to bring this suggestion. More precisely - is it true that the current system does not allow competativeness.

I was totaly "suprised" to learn that in this group none had been newer than teams who had been playing from season 4 !!!
Although there where 13 seasons from that season, none had been able to reach this league!

I'll say that this alone proves my case of a great need for a competativeness system.

[I'll answer you last message in a separate message]

2) That 50K player, will probably will be a great backup in the his new DIV.

he was 20min backup at the last BBB, and not that unsuccesful ;) Secondary bring a lot into the game, thats why a salry cap work more for more multiskill then for making money equal.

Everyone tries to maximize skills-to-money.
More money does allow you to maximize it more, but just to have better players (that costs more money...).

today you have the decision to get more primarys, for a cheap price and paying more for salarys or buying more expensiv secondaries to have a lower paycheck. second option will be gone, with a salary cap, even when this is the possibility most team who promotes and then be competive choose(and still earned money, not championship teams but not in fight against relegation also)

No it will not happen, as economy is always about balance.
When the "demand" to a specific kind of players rises, but their "supply" does not change then their price is higher.
When their price is higher, the decision returns...
Pay more for getting a specific player on an auction, or paying less on that player and then paying more due to the cap.

In addition, this cap can be defined by other means - Value of a player, Transfer's cost, etc.

I now know what has happened to BB server. When you created a team the server got dumbness overload. That's why all updates are late and they can't pinpoint the thing causing it. I think we need an ignore user suggestion. It would effectivly filter out all the garbage suggestions and one can focus on the normal suggestions. I'm sure BB's would use that addition.
I've heard one "challenged" person can ask dumb questions faster than 10 smart people can answer them. But this is getting ridiculous. Sorry for the offtopic.

Your posts are just ignorant. It ignores the fact that smart management will make you promote a lot faster than if you are not adding value to your team at all. Here is an analysis on Australian ABBL done by another user for this upcoming season:

Big 8
Team/ Season Started
Kynlala Knights 9
Black Label Society 2
Baxter Bogans 7
Monkey Business 9
Lewisham Wombats 2
Bell Park SuperCats 3
Zazzocalypse 7
Da Fat Boy Slim 9

Great 8
Whitebeard 9
WA IS A DUMP 3
Billy Hoyles Boys 6
Koopasaurus 9
Pancakes with Jam and Cream 4
Hadders Heros 3
hopelessly addicted 6
Chelsea Seagulls 10

As you can see, the youngest team currently in ABBL started in season 10. Given that Australia has 4 divisions and we are in season 18, then more or less that team averaged a promotion once every 2 seasons which is fair. You can't seriously expect to start a new team and be able to compete in the top tier of competition from the get go.

I myself, have been in ABBL since season 16 and have been one of the top tier Division 2 teams (fighting for promotion) since season 13 so it can be done.

To sum up, it is NOT the game's fault that a user is a poor manager and is not promoting as fast as other users. New teams CAN catchup but obviously you can't expect to do that from day 1. It takes a bit of patience. This game is a marathon not a sprint.

Actually no, you're wrong. If he didn't manage to go up from div IV to div II in just one season, than the game is seriously flawed. Not to mention that is unbelievably hard to build your roster without auto-bids, end-of-auction buzzers, and impossible to win withoug seeing your opponents' players skills